Cross at 60 vs Cross at 100

[sigbergaudio]

When I say adjust the subs, I mean that I take a sub measurement, a Left main measurement, a Right main measurement in REW and I see if the subwoofer line is crossing the mains FR at the right crossover target. I'm using MultiEQ-X to tell the AVR what crossover I want, yes. If the sub measurement line is either higher or lower than the target crossover, 100hz for example, I just make small volume adjustments on each of the subs and re-measure until the subs are crossing the LR at the crossover target.

I'm green at all this so let's keep that in mind.

Well this complicates comparing the different crossover alternatives quite a bit, as you are introducing other changes at the same time. And neither we nor you will know if your preference for one setting is due to the crossover or due to the overall bass level (which is significantly different between the different measurements).

I would suggest testing different crossover settings in the Denon without adjusting the gain if you want to listen to and/or measure which crossover that works best. Then AFTER determining that, you can adjust the gain to your preference.

 

[Acerun]

Well this complicates comparing the different crossover alternatives quite a bit, as you are introducing other changes at the same time. And neither we nor you will know if your preference for one setting is due to the crossover or due to the overall bass level (which is significantly different between the different measurements).

I would suggest testing different crossover settings in the Denon without adjusting the gain if you want to listen to and/or measure which crossover that works best. Then AFTER determining that, you can adjust the gain to your preference.

Sorry for the uninformed question, but if the crossover isn't in the right place, what's the point of measuring it?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Sorry for the uninformed question, but if the crossover isn't in the right place, what's the point of measuring it?

I would say there's no "right" place for the crossover, you are experimenting with what works the best. If there's a discrepancy between what you set in the Denon and what you measure, that doesn't really matter.

If you insist on testing say 80hz (that actually measures like 80hz), and if you set Denon to 80hz that is actually 90hz, then I would change to 70hz in the denon, not adjust the gain of the sub.

 

[Chromatischism]

I agree with Sigberg. The crossover itself isn't an audible thing; you are hearing relative level differences between the two speakers. To arrive at your ultimate best-sounding setup, you will need to adjust crossover and level, however, you shouldn't do both at the same time. It will be iterative.

If you insist on testing say 80hz (that actually measures like 80hz), and if you set Denon to 80hz that is actually 90hz, then I would change to 70hz in the denon, not adjust the gain of the sub.

While noting that it isn't the same due to the roll-off of the speakers and subs changing with your selection as well.

 

[sigbergaudio]

The idea is to first find the crossover point that gives you the most even response, and then adjust the level.

 

[Thomas_A]

My suggestion: measure near-field of the speaker woofer with and iwithout plugged port and then choose crossover point. Adjust level. And then fix room mode peaks with eq.

 

[witwald]

What software are you using for this? Audacity?

@poxymoron Apologies for the late response. Yes, I used Audacity to perform the frequency analysis of those tracks.

 

[witwald]

Doesn't the Denon handle crossover filters for both subs and speakers? Why do you have to adjust the subwoofers?

Although AVRs have low-pass and high-pass filters for both the subwoofers and speakers, the AVRs generally don't seem to allow for fine-tuning of the crossover frequency to better take into account the actual acoustic responses. An AVR can be expected to have a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley low-pass filter for the subwoofer, while a 2nd-order Butterworth high-pass filter is applied to the speakers. In this situation, the natural roll-off of the speakers is expected to contribute to achieving what is usually an approximation to a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley high-pass acoustic response from the speakers. This approach to filtering generally works well for loudspeakers with natural low-frequency cut-offs in the 50Hz to 70Hz frequency range. However, by adjusting the subwoofer low-pass filter's cut-off point, it is possible to achieve a better complementary blending of the low-pass and high-pass acoustic responses than would otherwise occur.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Although AVRs have low-pass and high-pass filters for both the subwoofers and speakers, the AVRs generally don't seem to allow for fine-tuning of the crossover frequency to better take into account the actual acoustic responses. An AVR can be expected to have a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley low-pass filter for the subwoofer, while a 2nd-order Butterworth high-pass filter is applied to the speakers. In this situation, the natural roll-off of the speakers is expected to contribute to achieving what is usually an approximation to a 4th-order Linkwitz-Riley high-pass acoustic response from the speakers. This approach to filtering generally works well for loudspeakers with natural low-frequency cut-offs in the 50Hz to 70Hz frequency range. However, by adjusting the subwoofer low-pass filter's cut-off point, it is possible to achieve a better complementary blending of the low-pass and high-pass acoustic responses than would otherwise occur.

I don't disagree with this, but what seems to be the case here is that the OP has adjusted the gain of the subwoofer to hit a predetermined crossover in the measurements, and doing so between each measurement. This also (naturally) affects the overall gain of the subwoofer, which makes the graphs more difficult than necessary to read when (s)he is asking us which response looks the best.