Floorstander with subs vs Bookshelfs and subs

[shawndo]

When I search for this topic I only find "floorstanders vs bookshelfs with subs". I'm trying to find what the differences might be between floorstanders with subs vs bookshelfs with subs. (with a crossover and dirac). Would it just be purely SPL if the speakers are from the same product line?

I have 2x SVS SB12-NSD (12" 400w sealed) and was wondering if there was much value in getting the Revel f226be over the m126be considering I already have subs.

Also, there is something in the back of my head that matching these relatively inexpensive subs with fancy speakers might be somehow lacking, but I'm not really sure on what kind of measurements differ between budget and fancy subs other than pure SPL.

I'm in a medium sized room 11.5x21x9 (2173.5 cuft) and listen about 15ft/4.5m away at @85db. 100% music

This is sort of related to a previous post

 

[fpitas]

Subwoofers make all big speakers obsolete?

As a kid I always dreamed about the huge towers with a big woofer or even several bass drivers. But I'm wondering now that subs are priced OK for 10-15 inch and it's possible to add one to each channel, are all the big speakers obsolete? So a small speaker /monitor combined with a sub...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[fpitas]

It's...complicated.

 

[Valvetubehead]

It's...complicated.

well said…

 

[ZolaIII]

3~4 dB SPL and about 6 dB dynamic range without compression in main to low bass with 2x same woffer's. At the distance you lose about 12 dB or even a little bit more so yes you would gain to get from min to max calibration point (85 to 88 dB SPL avarge). There are of course & big bookshelf speakers for example with 12“ woffer's that can do 80 to 250 Hz range with additional up to 5~6 dB SPL headroom compared to 2x 6.5" woffer doing a same job.
Let's try to illustrate what happens for a sake of getting insist in what's happen on Wharfedale Liont example compression test:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/gm18cque851n8mj/Wharfedale%20Linton%2085%20%28Grille%20On%29_Compression.png?dl=0

As you can see they hold up to 96 dB SPL with little to no compression but fall apart at 102 dB. And if I whose you I would aim at one's which can do at least that much (102 dB SPL) with little to no compression. As measurements over 96 dB are rare you can aim for one's with lowest THD at such SPL. Hope that helps.

 

[Digby]

Would it just be purely SPL if the speakers are from the same product line?

I doubt it. The difference would be in, for want of a better word, 'punch' and probably dynamics and perception of the 'size' of the sound too

I have 2x SVS SB12-NSD (12" 400w sealed) and was wondering if there was much value in getting the Revel f226be over the m126be considering I already have subs.

excellent speakers, others are available too.

Also, there is something in the back of my head that matching these relatively inexpensive subs with fancy speakers might be somehow lacking, but I'm not really sure on what kind of measurements differ between budget and fancy subs other than pure SPL.

I think it depends on the music you listen to and how much of the very low frequencies there are.

I'm in a medium sized room 11.5x21x9 (2173.5 cuft) and listen about 15ft/4.5m away at @85db. 100% music

You don't listen super loud, so one thing larger speakers tend to do is present a more 'dynamic' presentation at the same volume level as a comparable smaller speaker. I don't think exactly the same effect can be achieved with bookshelfs, whether you add subs or not.

 

[izeek]

iono about spl and the like but floorstanders and subs are better than bookshelves and subs, imo.
ive got jbl towers that go down to 28hz. i loved what i was hearing. them towers hit pretty low.
a matching sub became available and all i can say is "damn, that’s nice". till i got a second one. omg.
its as easy as playing just the mains, then switching the subs on one at a time, to hear the difference.
ime, the results are deeper bass with better detail, more dynamic impact and a bigger soundstage to some degree.
my bookshelves werent the same pedigree as my towers but the difference for me was muuuuuch better with towers and subs.
for me, there was a good improvement in low volume sound quality.
ymmv.

I doubt it. The difference would be in, for want of a better word, 'punch' and probably dynamics and perception of the 'size' of the sound too


excellent speakers, others are available too.


I think it depends on the music you listen to and how much of the very low frequencies there are.


You don't listen super loud, so one thing larger speakers tend to do is present a more 'dynamic' presentation at the same volume level as a comparable smaller speaker. I don't think exactly the same effect can be achieved with bookshelfs, whether you add subs or not.

 

[shawndo]

iono about spl and the like but floorstanders and subs are better than bookshelves and subs, imo.
ive got jbl towers that go down to 28hz. i loved what i was hearing. them towers hit pretty low.
a matching sub became available and all i can say is "damn, that’s nice". till i got a second one. omg.
its as easy as playing just the mains, then switching the subs on one at a time, to hear the difference.
ime, the results are deeper bass with better detail, more dynamic impact and a bigger soundstage to some degree.
my bookshelves werent the same pedigree as my towers but the difference for me was muuuuuch better with towers and subs.
for me, there was a good improvement in low volume sound quality.
ymmv.

when you added subs to floorstanders, were you doing a crossover or anything? (if so, what settings) or just purely additive?

 

[izeek]

crossovers set at 40. gain, one tick mark. real precise. picks up where the mains drop off fairly seamlessly.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

when you added subs to floorstanders, were you doing a crossover or anything? (if so, what settings) or just purely additive?

There is no one fits all rule or setting for sub integration. You need to measure and ideally use a RoomEQ / DSP system. Many such as Dirac, Audyssey and others provide some automatic integration which can be tweaked further manually if needed for xover, gain and phase/delay.

These parameters are not only dependent on your speakers capabilities but very much depend on your room and the positioning of your speakers therein (room modes).

 

[Tom C]

I think the two important things to know are, how low do your mains play, and how high can your subs play. A lot of mains, subs and towers, start to roll off gradually in the bass, before the steep roll off that you get below the port frequency. So you may, depending on your preferences, want you subs to play up into that region of more gradual rolloff.
I also like to look at where the bass distortion starts to rise, and avoid operating the mains in the region where it really starts to spike upward. That may be less important for some folks, though, since our ability to hear distortion in the bass region is diminished.

 

[Theta]

There is no one fits all rule or setting for sub integration. You need to measure and ideally use a RoomEQ / DSP system. Many such as Dirac, Audyssey and others provide some automatic integration which can be tweaked further manually if needed for xover, gain and phase/delay.

These parameters are not only dependent on your speakers capabilities but very much depend on your room and the positioning of your speakers therein (room modes).

Why not do it by ear?