Coronavirus Is Indiscriminate

[philosobyte]

potentially very useful - if they have ventilators, etc. and don't have to triage...

they can also diagnose and treat secondary infections

post 18 above this one is dead wrong

Ah, I meant ventilator, not respirator. My bad.

I suppose that I interpreted "treatment" to mean ways of directly fighting the infection, and there aren't any of those yet. I think was influenced by this article: https://www.uptodate.com/contents/coronaviruses, which includes statements such as "Since there is no effective treatment for coronavirus infections, establishing the diagnosis is of limited utility in patients suspected of having community-acquired coronavirus infections.", and "There is currently no treatment recommended for coronavirus infections except for supportive care as needed. Several antivirals and other agents were used during the severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) outbreak, but the efficacy of these drugs has not been established.",

Despite that, I'd agree with you in the sense that a hospital can help supply oxygen to you.

 

[Wombat]

Monkeys in Thailand suffering food shortage due to lack of tourists:

Thankfully they don't need to compete with humans for toilet paper.

 

[andymok]

There's only symptomatic treatment and supportive therapy right now.

Children's are less affected due to little socialisation from schools and society I guess?

 

[amirm]

Monkeys in Thailand suffering food shortage due to lack of tourists:

Thankfully they don't need to compete with humans for toilet paper.

Wow, talk about problems you don't predict....

 

[Thomas savage]

Treatment triage in Italy has been pretty brutal. The reality of most healthcare systems is that this will be repeated elsewhere; there simply are not the number of respiratory support systems in the world to deal with the likely numbers who will require them. Hence the attempts to flatten and spread the hump, to reduce peak demand on medical services. When demand outstrips resources, you will need to make brutal decisions about who to use those resources on. And it's not a good prospect for the elderly and those who have reduced survival rates anyway

Iv read reports of it being like a war zone. Quite shocking reading a recent article by a Italian nurse.

 

[Thomas savage]

There's only symptomatic treatment and supportive therapy right now.

Children's are less affected due to little socialisation from schools and society I guess?

No it's something to do with how they react to the virus , being new it has no inbuilt resistance but children seem to deal with this better than older folks.

It's a change in immune response in older adults around 3 or 4 days after infection that can lead to serious complications apparently.

Or so iv read.

 

[Wombat]

Problems not predicted:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...s-say-coronavirus-cannot-infect-them/12055476

Please don't make this an anti-religion thing because it isn't. Cultural practices around the world can be at odds with scientific advice and can be hard to temporarily change.

 

[raif71]

Monkeys in Thailand suffering food shortage due to lack of tourists:

Thankfully they don't need to compete with humans for toilet paper.

monkey business

 

[mansr]

Problems not predicted:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...s-say-coronavirus-cannot-infect-them/12055476

Please don't make this an anti-religion thing because it isn't. Cultural practices around the world can be at odds with scientific advice and can be hard to temporarily change.

That's the Greek Orthodox church, not some tribe on the Andaman Islands. It is very much a religion thing.

 

[captain paranoia]

How useful is ICU/hospital treatment? I keep reading that so and so person from the Nursing Home went there and after two days passed.

That's the point about brutal triage; people with compromised health are unlikely to survive, whatever treatment is given. So, you prioritise the available treatment to those who have more chance of surviving, if treated. This will be based on defined assessment criteria, which will be staged, to address the changing demand.

This isn't a theoretical discussion; this is real, clinical practice. As Thomas said; Italy is like a war zone.

 

[Mtbf]

The virus survives on stainless steel and plastics for ~2 and maybe 3 days. There is no escape.

Nine days that is, according to science
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463

 

[noobie]

potentially very useful - if they have ventilators, etc. and don't have to triage...

they can also diagnose and treat secondary infections

post 18 above this one is dead wrong

Well... that depends... last year I was hospitalized in Everett at the very hospital where the first US Coronavirus patient was cared for. After several days my white blood cell count had become so dangerously low that the doctors told me that while I should remain hospitalized the reality was that I was at high risk of additional infection and that I would be safer if I went home and avoided everyone. It did not help that it was at the height of flu season and they did not have any ICU space or even private rooms - the very situation everyone is concerned about with a crush of COVID-19 cases on the way. Yeah, I got out of there as fast as I could. (If you think hospitals are safe, do some basic googling for the cultures taken from doctors and nurses hands. Yuck. Hospitals are great when you really, really need them. But horrible if you only kinda sorta need them)

 

[fredoamigo]

here in France our Minister of Health has just advised against the use of anti inflammatoires ibuprofen or cortisone because cases of spectacular aggravation have been noted with these pain killers.

I think that in 2 weeks time we will be like Italy, even if it is finally (but belatedly) beginning to have a serious awareness of the problem by the population.

 

[Old Listener]

I'll volunteer as the "All but didn't leave the house and barely even had a visitor" test case.

We'll find out if coronavirus can be transmitted via the TV or Radio.

I'll assume my discs aren't infected.

Oh wait, I'm playing a new release right now.
...

Watch out for streaming media. And social media posts that go viral!

 

[Xulonn]

Monkeys in Thailand suffering food shortage due to lack of tourists:

Unfortunately, those monkeys reflect the reaction of many humans to this pandemic - primitive instincts can - and often do - overwhelm rational responses that are based higher intelligence and education.

Waaaay back in 1962 when I was in basic training at the U.S. Navy boot camp in San Diego, a package of home-baked cookies from the ladies at the church - where my father was the clergyman - arrived during "mail call" which was during our lunch break just before returning to our training. The recruit petty officer doing mail call stood next to a table with the mail, picked up pieces, called out the name and threw the envelope or small package to the recipient when they raised their hand. I got my box of cookies, opened it and was sharing with a couple of buddies. Then our company commander said "5 more minutes and what's left goes in the trash" as we neared the end of the lunch break. I grabbed a couple more cookies, and set the box of remaining cookies on the ground.

A mad rush of my fellow recruits fighting over those few cookies followed, leaving me staring in amazement. It had the same energy as those monkeys in Thailand. Many humans are only rational beings when conditions are good - or the riot police are in control.

 

[Wombat]

Posted

That's the Greek Orthodox church, not some tribe on the Andaman Islands. It is very much a religion thing.

I made it clear that it was posted as a cultural practise rather than religious. Oh, well.

 

[mansr]

I made it clear that it was posted as a cultural practise rather than religious. Oh, well.

I don't think that's your decision to make.

 

[Wombat]

Triaging based on age and extant medical conditions is possible. I hope not.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/eur...eir-fate-as-crisis-grows-20200315-p54a75.html

In wartime a besieged field triage surgeon would basically say "OK" or "out the back" when a casualty was presented. Best chance resource allocation.

 

[amirm]

Just read that the spouse of the Spain prime minister has gotten the virus.

 

[Wombat]

From a 'four - percenter':

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03...avirus-dont-be-flippant-with-covid19/12056582

It puts hoarding into perspective.