Conversation: Possible “UMIK” rental service, please read.

[Shives]

Hello and good day all audio lovers!!
So, I have an idea.. I reached out to our wonderful moderators for approval first on me posting this topic. (To be clear its not endorsing, its making sure I'm not violating policy/rules and can post here! I don't want to upset anyone, So I asked where I should talk about this possible idea)

I’m considering a new service for people..
UMIK rental service.
I know a lot of people want a Mic to test there audio system with the great free app REW!
Sadly due to the fact that 1. Products are scarce. 2. Shipping times and delays 3. The fact many just use it once and don’t need it again.. Is why I’m opening up a discussion about a rental service for products.

I would start with just renting out UMIK mics. From this point, if it goes well.. I may consider adding a laptop or two for people who don’t have one, or don’t know well how to configure said computer for use.

All of this information and even REW is free, I’m not selling any of that! But the hardware and configurations are not free! I hear more of mics being used and then never looked at again, or people not knowing how to set things like adding the calibration files and such.

For now I’m just looking at the microphones for rental.

I would love some feedback on this, and maybe suggestions. If anyone is looking or needs this service, I would ask you make a post here saying “PM sent” and I can try to help as soon as possible. But, it will show me people want to do this, and helps me keep the order of who really wants this.

I will and have to work out a contract! With fee’s and times. Also paying and upfront deposit for the hardware (just like any other rental service, you must leave a deposit) will be a must and advised by the mods. (Great addition)
My goal would be a stream-line way to get things out and back.

Im thinking the rental charge might be around 35.00 for a few days time. Maybe up to 5. A deposit would need to be made to make sure the equipment comes back. And if it gets stolen, or broken you would not get your refund. I think that makes sense, and is fair.

I would love suggestions, and love feedback. I’m sure not everyone will be into this.. but some will be! I just ask that we have a constructive and kind conversation about this. If you feel this is not for you, then no problem, please don’t be apart of the discussion.

I have a long background with audio.. Best way I can show you my feedback and abilities are by showing you my comments on my EBay page. 100% over 350 purchases/sales. Feedback siting my fast shipping and accuracy! I’ve also purchased items from folks here and had great dealings with them!

I’m here to help! And really it’s what I’m dying to do, help people!

Please leave your comments below. If you in dyer need, please post PM sent and of course send me a message.

Im located in the New England area (mass) just to give you an idea. Shipping would be with UPS or maybe Fedex!? USPS has not be reliable at all, still.
Cheers

 

[Shives]

This post will be reserved for later use of products and prices.

 

[Shives]

Also reserving this spot for photos of products, contract ideas and more.
Thanks.

 

[audio2design]

$35 to rent a $79 microphone, with say $15-20 shipping each way for tracked/ensured. Not seeing it as a great business model. w.r.t. laptop rental, again, not seeing that as viable considering shipping costs, packing, etc. Could probably embed a fully set up and configured REW into a downloadable VM with easy instructions for loading a microphone configuration. You may be able to convince some people to rent a microphone and configured laptop, from your end, the effort versus ROI is likely to be near nil.

 

[Slayer]

I think this is idea has potential. However i think there are a few things you should consider..

1) charging $35 plus a deposit, plus shipping, may make it more difficult. It might make most more inclined just to buy their own.
2) If by chance a product is broken, now you get into whose fault was it. Yours, the renter, or the shipping company. Therefore it may be best for you to carry insurance on said products.
A lot to consider for a small revenue, and a lot of potential hassles.

 

[BlackTalon]

UMIK-2 is ~$200, so the rental prices given aren't too bad if that is the case. Would likely not be worth it for a -1.

 

[Shives]

Audio2 thanks for your response.

I think your missing some key information. Ordering directly from the company in Hong Kong..Or where ever they are today, Directly from the web site to me is 101. This is before duty for a package to enter the USA. Hey, maybe some don't get hit with the duty, maybe some do. Still please add accurate information, all I'm asking. 109 at the VERY least.

Amazon link for UMIK-1 https://www.amazon.com/miniDSP-UMIK-1-Measurement-Calibrated-Microphone/dp/B00N4Q25R8/ref=sr_1_2?crid=ZVGF5AWW6WNR&dchild=1&keywords=umik-1&qid=1623171624&sprefix=umik,aps,171&sr=8-2

Thats 119.99 due to the fact they have to pay the duty/taxes.

So, in fact if someone could get the mic at 79.99 with zero taxes and duty.. I would suggest to try that, for sure! I would do the same. But I tried that, and know it's false.

To start right at sending out laptops with mic all configured is deff an option.. Tho I think mostly people would be after the mic, pay a lessor fee, and watch videos how to set it up.. At least hoping to save some money that way. But some are not good with installing such.. So, again that would be my only extra I could provide seeing how AudioNervana has such good videos for walking someone on installing said software.. Rental of laptop and mic together ready for action. Also, I would provide the files for 0 deg 45 and 90 on a usb file. Oh, my mics have been calibrated by CSL as well. But to me that does not add value. Thanks for your comment! I'll consider your statement.

Slayer.. Just like any item you rent, you must put a deposit down. I feel most people would be able to do this.. But you are right some folks may not be able to add 119.99 to a card for hold. I'm sure other ways would be doable. something to think about for sure man!

So, this is a microphone, that would be tested each time it goes out and comes back. Photos would be taken as well. I'm beyond hard-pressed (more so after speaking with the company at hand and directly about how many shipping faults they have (beyond little) Sure, shippers do cause damage! If that's the case, the shipping company would have to be at fault. But packing this properly, being I have a HARD CASE for the microphone, I would be hard-pressed to see how a shipper could damage a microphone. Most cases its from being dropped by consumers! Hooking up products wrong (got a story of someone hooking the microphone to a USB power supply directly) And sure, those events.. To which would be really easy to figure out, the customer would not get back the deposit. Just like in renting a car, you have optional insurance. If you choose to use it, your covered for shipping. If you choose not to, then your responsible 100% as they say you'll have X amount of time to pay the full amount. In this case, a despot would be taken. Again just like any rental company.. Home Depot tools, Autozone tools.. This is a tool. Same thing would go.
Thanks for your edition Slayer!

Again, this post is for ideas to help it work, not so much of why you think it won't! If this is not your cup a tea, I totally understand that. Maybe it won't work.. we will see.

Some folks in this world would have no problem spending X amount that's 3 times or more lower then retail to use an item that in most cases only gets used for a day or two.. 35 was really just a starting point, a thought. Thats all, None of what I am saying is 100% ready, but its a starting point of conversation.

Same time I would provide shipping out. This box is not that big, I can't see it taking more then 10-20 to ship back with insurance up to 125.00 (couple dollars) So, it could be very possible to rent it out, for around half or less the cost of being new, and your limited use.

Again, many things to consider of course! Thats why I'm opening the floor for conversation.

Again, a lot of people have there own opinion, Me I just want to try and help people.. So, I'm actually making an effort to try and do such! Thats all.. Again some may not like the idea, No worries.. just move on.. Some may like the idea and have great suggestions.. And that would be great to share. Heck some may not like it, but still may add positive feedback.. Thats what I'm hoping for. This is not going to get anyone rich, and may provide more of a headache then a plus. Thats sooooooo true..

Thanks guys for your feedback.

 

[Shives]

Folks, please understand UMIK is not a native USA product. It in fact comes form out of country. This product ships out of the US.. Amazon has it for 119.99 Why? They boats to be the lower ones for products, if they could have lowered it more, I feel they would have of. BUT, due to duty tax, and such.. Thats not the case. I can screen shot the skips for importuning the mics from the company directly..


A UMIK-2... So that could be a possibility.. Yet that mic is a bit more advanced.. I don't see people really wanting to rent that... Maybe I'm wrong. But that mic seems to need some more setup then the UMIK-1, where as what we do with our home units, the UMIK-1 is going to be fine for use. Sure, the person that want the lower noise floor and the ADC configuration. That might be a lot more to deal with, then someone trying to find nulls and setup mule-subs and or other basic things that the UMIK-1 would do with zero issue.

UMIK-2 current price on Amazon is 249.99 before tax. Black talon thank you for your comment! Again the sis something to check out for sure, but maybe when its firmware and such is sorted, and more help is out there for it. I don't want someone to get stuck and not be able to use because of said firmware. So once product is 100%, deff something to consider!! Great edition.

Also right in check-out it states this price is without tax and duty!
UMIK-1

150-00079 USD


79 USD
PRODUCT PRICES RESULT:79 USDSHIPPING - NORTH AMERICADHL/FEDEX - SHIPPING PRICE EXCLUDING DUTIES/CUSTOMS FEES
22 USD
VISA/MASTERCARD/AMX/GOOGLEPAYTOTAL:
101 USD

BUT, that could be something to consider for sure!! Thing is, its quiet bit more, DIRAC live is having some issues with it.. (maybe the has been sorted out) As well, because of its new features many are finding results incorrect from each other. As many get caught up in the SPL of things, the UMIK was showing totally diffret FQ response just some short months ago. I'm sure they have patched it, and figure it out..
Maybe doing something like different levels of equipment for ones needs. For now, I think I'm going to focus on the trust worthy, tried and true (for now) UMIK-1, with an open mind to the UMIK-2. If that were to prove much better, and the problems sorted, I would have no problem buying one.

Sametime, just so you all know.. This is not a get rich thing.. By any means, this is a shit ton of work on my end to help others out. Im sure many just think trying to get rich, but a 35.00 mic won't get me rich.. Its just enough for my time to run around, do paper work, pay credit cards fee's for deposits and maybe make 5.00. The point is to help out folks who can't afford that 119.99 plus tax purchase..

Thats all

 

[Shives]

So, the best point in the world was just brought up to me, thank you!! You know who you are..

At this time, I would not loan out laptops. due to possible legal issues, this is a bad idea for me. So, lets take that off the table for now. To many risks..

I do like the idea of having the UMIK-1 and 2 for rental. that's a good idea.. So, no problem!

 

[abdo123]

Good luck!

 

[Shives]

Good luck!

Thanks man!! I just want to help people.. It may not work out.. Then again.. It might..

 

[Colonel7]

Very interesting idea. You should do a couple polls. Are you sure that your assumptions are correct? I can't remember used UMIK-1s coming up for sale often, which probably means folks here are using them at least a couple times a year (or think they will). You should also find out what duration they use it for before it loses its utility to them. Is it a day, a week, a month?

You want to make it an attractive option and as painless as possible for the customer and you. 10 days seems much better than 5 if customers have a regular M-F job that often bleeds into weekends. If I missed a weekend window I know I wouldn't likely get to use it during the week. A 2 weekend rental would provide some assurance and give some time for the person to arrange for the pickup or dropoff for the return shipping. 10 days would, however, mean more inventory for you. If you have decent packaging/boxing that can be re-used and supply a pre-paid return label as part of the cost that would work well. IIRC Crutchfield does that with their speaker compare/headphone rental, which is a good point of comparison for an audio rental.

Taxes also might be a pain because most states would make you charge taxes on the deposit and then the customer would expect you to reimburse it. Crutchfield does that I think. Food for thought...

 

[tgray]

FWIW, I ordered a UMIK-1 direct from MiniDSP in March and it was $97 with shipping and everything. Looks like they have since raised the price $4.

I'd personally just buy one, but I'd definitely recommend looking into typical pricing for rentals to determine your pricing. If I had to guess, somewhere at 25-35% of the replacement cost.

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

Just so you know, rental service of the UMIK-1 is not new in China. They also have similar services for other types of one-and-done measurement gears, such as the GLM kit and the more expensive Earthwork microphones. The UMIK-1 costs about the same in China as in the US, but the cost for transit is much cheaper (not to mention it's also faster), so people in China do save a meaningful chunk by renting instead of buying.

The UMIK-1 (plus tax & shipping): ￥800 = $123
One-day rental: ￥10 = $1.5
Seven-day rental: ￥50 = $7.69
Buyer pays for the roundtrip shipping.
Not sure if Buyer also needs to put the full UMIK-1 price as deposit during the rental and get it back after return.

If you want to started a service like this, I would recommend also offering rental of individually calibrated UMIK-1 (e.g. CSL calibrated), so that people who already have a UMiK-1 can cross-reference yours whit their own. The UMIK-1 for miniDSP is batch calibrated and has a pretty wide tolerance unfortunately.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Just giving honest feedback, but I don't see how this works for you as a business nor will it save enough money over purchasing for the great majority of people.

Now if this were in enough demand you could do it locally without the shipping it might be viable in my opinion.

 

[rodrigaj]

In the USA, I bought a UMIK-1 for $85 from Deer Creek Audio in August 2019. I also bought an SHD for $1315 shortly thereafter. Both prices include shipping cost. They provided support for doing all of the DSP setup and fine tuning. They are a registered dealer for miniDSP. I did not need to go through HK.

Not sure what you would do that they wouldn't do. If you offered to come out and do all the work yourself, that might be an alternative, but honestly renting a microphone just doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I know from personal experience, that the use of the UMIK-1 is never just a "one" time setup. People who get into dsp, like to try different things, it's part to the "fun". Good luck.

 

[audio2design]

If you want to started a service like this, I would recommend also offering rental of individually calibrated UMIK-1 (e.g. CSL calibrated), so that people who already have a UMiK-1 can cross-reference yours whit their own. The UMIK-1 for miniDSP is batch calibrated and has a pretty wide tolerance unfortunately.

"It is provided with a unique calibration file based on the serial number to insure an accurate measurement."


Your plots show that the calibration is different for every unit. On what are you basing your "batch" calibration claim? What is your claimed tolerance and how have you arrived at that?

 

[Χ Ξ Σ]

"It is provided with a unique calibration file based on the serial number to insure an accurate measurement."


Your plots show that the calibration is different for every unit. On what are you basing your "batch" calibration claim? What is your claimed tolerance and how have you arrived at that?

This a widely discussed topic on various forums. You may just Google it. If miniDSP improved its calibration process over the years and made better cal files now, I would be happly to know that.

 

[Shives]

These are all great points! Really! I’m going to go back and read them all again. I thought it would be some good conversation.
And, maybe it would need to be a bit more time and less for sure! Totally why I want the information. Again, no point to do something if it’s really zero help to people. And, by no means I’m I looking to make millions off of it.

That’s said I’ll have to look into all of this. Wow, It’s crazy how I hear so many different sides of what things cost. But, yea looks like rates raised. As well, shipping you may or may not get that duty charge. Or ways to avoid it. But again, it’s fact that some may not have the bread for the full amount. Let alone the UMIK-2’s. I want to dive further into that..

So, the UMIK-1’s are from Cross-spectrum. And would include files with the mic, or just email them to the customer. Still, another task to do.. so it’s something to add to the list.

Taxes and getting hit again, I don’t like that! So, I want to try and avoid this. Unless cost comes to a point where it’s not a big factor. Again comes down to is it really worth it.

Now a lot of you I bet have them, or plan to keep them.. I’ve personally spoke to quiet a few people that do the setup, and then sell. Again, not me.. i get the value of hanging on. I see them come up often enough in other locations. Not so much here. I’ve also seen people asking. So, again I wanted to see if it’s even worth the time. Other places do seem to have a different mind set for folks too.. So might not be that popular here, as maybe another. Again.. the amount of feedback and information I get here will most likely determine if I even bother else where. Lol. I find things here a bit more meaningful. So I appreciate it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

This a widely discussed topic on various forums. You may just Google it. If miniDSP improved its calibration process over the years and made better cal files now, I would be happly to know that.

I've often wondered about that graph on the UMIK1. I have taken various omni mikes mostly those for recording, used the maker's published response curve to create a cal file and then compared to a calibrated Umik1. They pretty much all lay right on top of each other on the graph to about 3 khz. Then there are some small deviation above 3 khz though even here they are usually very close.

Here is an example. A Umik 1, CAD M179 in omni mode, and Avantone CK-1 with omni capsule.