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"Chord Electronics FPGA DAC Technology Explained" - What went wrong?

DSJR

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I really like that article, Linn made such a fuss of wristwatches, single speaker demonstrations analogue superiority, all complete b*****ks.
What’s worse people believed it.
Keith
From the Linn coalface -

Back in the late 70's/early eighties, Linn brought out a 12", Analogue and Digital, with one side recorded using an analogue recorder and the other, the identical mix but recorded with the PCM-F1. They sent some pressings out to us and there was consternation when it turned out thre side we preferred was the digital one (no editing in countdown to the songs on the digital side)... Some years later, one of their engineers brought in the first 'pro version' of the Numerik encoder/decoder with some digital masters and it 'sounded' great (we'd already heard some years before that the Sony 1610 pro a-d-a was transparent to the signal fed it).

The analogue-is-best/vinyl-is-better programming was extremely strong and effective and some still will not be shaken from that belief. I still sadly feel also (and kind-of coming back to topic) that so many well heeled audiophiles genuinely believe that more expensive is better.
 

fpitas

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I still sadly feel also (and kind-of coming back to topic) that so many well heeled audiophiles genuinely believe that more expensive is better.
I think that's a common human failing. It's just that poor people can't act on it ;)
 

amirm

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Well, you’ll still need interpolation. The sample value is only valid for one point in time, not for the whole sample. The only thing you did is shift the burden of the interpolation to the analog part of the DAC: you’ll need to construct an analog low-pass with a very steep filter and deep stop and. That’s going to be hard, and the phase error will be significant.
I hear you but an analog filter is not an interpolator since it operates in continuous time domain, not discrete.
 

voodooless

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Captured output of a TDA1543 running at either 44.1 or 48kHz I forgot

qutYQs7.png
Well? Looks like continuous samples, right? In this case the chip did the interpolation for you using sample and hold. Reconstruction failure guaranteed
I hear you but an analog filter is not an interpolator since it operates in continuous time domain, not discrete.
Sure, but the point is that you cannot omit a filter. You’re not solving any problem with shifting the burden to the analog end. In fact , your making it a lot more complex.
 

IAtaman

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There is a reason to do it and that is to find extraneous factors that lead to differences. Let me give an actual example.

Many years ago in another forum the topic of demagnetizing CDs and LPs came up. There were folks that swore by the latter using a specific DeMag device from Japan. A friend and high-end manufacturer volunteered to capture the output of a virgin LP (never played before), first as is and then after the de-mag process. I listen to the two captures and there was clear difference with the latter sounding more open. Objective analysis using an audio editing program showed clear differences as well. Quite surprising for those of us who thought there is nothing to demagnetize in an LP.

Fortunately, I thought of another possibility and I asked my friend to capture a virgin (never played) LP twice without any de-mag process. Well, wouldn't you know it: the same difference was there! In other words, the sound of LP improved on second playback compared to first. That would explain why people would hear a difference. But of course association with the de-mag was faulty.

Now, this kind of thing happening is rare so likely all such tests will fail but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try it.

As to not believing it, yes, we would be incredulous but as long as we can replicate the test, all is well. We could do that and do our own analysis of any audible difference. Or show that the test was wrong.
You are right. I think it is fair to say that a lot of interesting science came out from the pursuit of the mythical phenomena, like Aether, and from trying to convince stubborn old men out of their beliefs, like the cosmological constant. So I can see how there might be value in investigating some of these more outlandish claims, which I understand is also your point.

At the same time, I also think if someone came to me and suggested we should be sending expeditions to North Pole to look for Santa, I would not be inclined to agree that it is a good idea, despite the interesting discoveries such expedition might yield. So maybe it boils down to how do you decide whether this is an Aether story or a Santa story?

For me, based on pkane's results of -250db difference in audible range, this is more like a Santa story than an Aether story. I will be very surprised if anything interesting would come out of listening tests that is not about the listening tests themselves, because it seems to me it is very unlikely that such a test would detect any audible difference.

In the DeMag device example - if people already knew the LP sounds different between first and second playback, nothing was really accomplihsed other than convincing some people that there is no magic in their fancy toys, was it?
 
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Palladium

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Well @Dan Clark is a big proponent of Chord products. In one of his posts here you guys have all missed, he claimed, and I quote, "Chord Mojo 2, Hugo 2, and TT2's we use renders highs with an extremely natural timbre that most DACs we've heard don't". I proposed a blind test wager, he kindly declined. He said he guesses (or he and his team, I am not sure as he keeps using "we") that it might be the filter. Maybe he can enlighten us, or even convince his buddy Rob to volunteer to a test?

*sniff*...Is that the smell of conflict of interest coming from a mile away?
 

AdrianusG

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Well, I was asking whether you can hear this jitter you found. I don't think that was an unreasonable question. If the jitter is noticeable, that would be a bigger deal than if it's something you can't hear. I don't need solid objective engineering and measurements to know if I heard something, nor should you.
Hi,
Amirm already answered how it sounded (subjetive but still...,) according to him. nothing to write home about.

He also answered how it measures, not better, but actually (in this case) worse than A LOT of the DAC's 200-400 $ category.

So all in all these results, at especially such a "lofty" price point makes it not competitive whatsoever, unless of course you want to pay for looks and/or materials used.
 

ocinn

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He is not right. How something is built can or cannot have an impact on the sound.
Apologies if I am misunderstanding who you are referring to, but I (who bigearsbill replied to) am firmly on your side on the audibility/value argument.

My point came from a more realistic POV where I understand that many people might want a swanky, in-house-designed, boutique (FPGA) dac, and in that context, I really don’t think that Chord is our enemy.

Are they overpriced for their performance? Yes. Are they, however, totally competent products, price out of the equation? Yes as well!

Are they blatantly lying to their prospective customers, like a certain company that rhymes with BS Claudio? No, not really.
 
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