Cheapest Full Range 20hz - 20khz Speakers?

[Duke]

Well, we're both in agreement, so we're going to be right or wrong together.

And now we have Andreasmaaan outnumbered two-to-one. So no matter what he says, if we just STICK TOGETHER on this, we'll win!!

 

[andreasmaaan]

@infinitesymphony, @tuga, @Shazb0t, @dasdoing, @detlev24, I'm so sorry, and so embarrassed. But after attempting to convolve more files, I went through the checks again to make sure that an impulse response was being convolved correctly, and it wasn't.

Since I don't know if it stopped working before or after I convolved the last lot of files, I no longer have faith that they were correctly convolved with the phase-distorted impulse (it's not possible to check the files directly, as any phase changes are visually lost in the complex waveform).



I'm working on it now and hope to have a solution soon. But you may not even have been listening to different files, I'm afraid :/

 

[Duke]

But you may not even have been listening to different files, I'm afraid :/

Ha! That would be like me taking a pie in the face!!

I remember Earl Geddes did that deliberately one time, and I was the only one who said they didn't hear a difference. This time I really thought I heard a difference, but if it turns out there was none, well then I just learned something the hard way!

 

[Shazb0t]

@infinitesymphony, @tuga, @Shazb0t, @dasdoing, @detlev24, I'm so sorry, and so embarrassed. But after attempting to convolve more files, I went through the checks again to make sure that an impulse response was being convolved correctly, and it wasn't.

Since I don't know if it stopped working before or after I convolved the last lot of files, I no longer have faith that they were correctly convolved with the phase-distorted impulse (it's not possible to check the files directly, as any phase changes are visually lost in the complex waveform).



I'm working on it now and hope to have a solution soon. But you may not even have been listening to different files, I'm afraid :/

Even better! @tuga @Duke, keep in mind you'll have to do this a bunch of times and correctly get it right in order to establish an actual confidence level. Good luck!

 

[infinitesymphony]

I'm working on it now and hope to have a solution soon. But you may not even have been listening to different files, I'm afraid :/

After I made my guess, I did notice the file sizes were identical, and at that point I took a close look at the waveforms. I figured, if there is a difference, it must be incredibly small. I was like, "Wow, this ABX is intense, everything even looks the same."

 

[andreasmaaan]

Ha! That would be like me taking a pie in the face!!

I remember Earl Geddes did that deliberately one time, and I was the only one who said they didn't hear a difference. This time I really thought I heard a difference, but if it turns out there was none, well then I just learned something the hard way!

Haha, I think it's me who got the pie in the face here

Anyway, I've now verified that my convolver is working. Here is the unconvolved impulse (left) and convolved impulse (right):

This time, I checked it both immediately before and immediately after convolving the samples.

The new files are now uploaded and ready to go. Here's the folder link again.

Once again, I'm so, so sorry about the first run!

After I made my guess, I did notice the file sizes were identical, and at that point I took a close look at the waveforms. I figured, if there is a difference, it must be incredibly small. I was like, "Wow, this ABX is intense, everything even looks the same."

It would actually be great if you'd inspect the new waveforms, too. Since I obviously can't be trusted, hahahaha.

 

[richard12511]

I'll stick my neck out too. Pantosi 2 seems to have a weird "after pressure" effect in the drum decay. It's hard to describe, but the decay has a pressure wobble that kinda hurts my ears a little bit, almost like a 10Hz sine wave, though obviously not that powerful. In a way, I "feel it" more than I hear it. 1 seems to hurt my ears less, and decay better, so I'm gonna guess that's the time aligned one.

The Ravel one is much tougher, imo. I'll listen more, later(if you've not posted the results yet).

Of course all of this could just be my brain listening differently. I'm somewhat confident about the first one, though.

*Edit: forgot to mentioned that I listened with my 8030c setup. All my headphones are stuck at the office.

 

[infinitesymphony]

The new files are now uploaded and ready to go. Here's the folder link again.

Just a heads-up for people who downloaded the Drive folder as a zip the first time around, at least on my computer, Drive thought it would be clever by presenting me with the original v1 zip of the folder after my second request. Be sure to check your file sizes.

v2 Panotsi 1 & 2 each should be approx. 3.79 MB
v2 Revel 1 & 2 each should be approx. 1.56 MB

And away we go...

 

[infinitesymphony]

Also, I didn't want to cheat by looking at the waveforms yet, but I was able to confirm that the files are different in some way despite being the same size by comparing SHA1 hashes. You can do this in Windows using "certutil -hashfile filename.wav".

 

[richard12511]

Also, to be more scientifical, perhaps we should pm @andreasmaaan our guesses. After reading the other’s answers now, I’m starting to think I hear differences in the second song too. No way to undo that expectation bias now.

 

[Duke]

I opened the Google Drive file and navigated away from this page before anyone had posted their impressions. Then I PM'd my calls to @andreasmaaan before returning to this thread.

Even better! @tuga @Duke, keep in mind you'll have to do this a bunch of times and correctly get it right in order to establish an actual confidence level. Good luck!

I've already flunked... on the first test, I thought I heard a difference when there was none.

 

[infinitesymphony]

PM'd for v2.

 

[carewser]

Why?!

I think I can answer that

Because some people really, really, really, really like music

I mean to a degree even I can't fathom and I own 9 subwoofers

 

[infinitesymphony]

I'm 0 for 2, y'all. I can't differentiate between the samples in a meaningful way, and if you can, I want to know what qualities you're listening for and what gear you're using.

 

[Duke]

I'm 0 for 2, y'all. I can't differentiate between the samples in a meaningful way, and if you can, I want to know what qualities you're listening for and what gear you're using.

I got 'em BOTH wrong too.

Maybe you and I are actually hearing a difference, but mis-identifying which is which?

Or maybe you need a new hobby and I need a new job!

 

[infinitesymphony]

I got 'em BOTH wrong too.

Maybe you and I are actually hearing a difference, but mis-identifying which is which?

Or maybe you need a new hobby and I need a new job!

Well, I guessed one correctly in v2, but listening to the files again and knowing which is which, I can't point to any particular quality that stands out. If you correctly identified the pairs, I'd say that puts you closer.

 

[detlev24]

Great work @andreasmaaan! Don't worry, there is no learning without mistakes - we are but human.

A nice way [on Windows] to perform those ABX tests is via foobar2000's 'ABX Comparator' plug-in (see also "Links: Documentation"). One should perform at least 10 trials to receive a statistically significant result but do also not exaggerate, as ABX tests are tiring [even for trained listeners].

[Edit] I should have added that by definition, a minimum 95% confidence level is required to exclude "guessing". This means, if T = no. trials and C = min. no. correct:

T 10 : C ≥09
T 11 : C ≥09
T 12 : C ≥10
T 13 : C ≥10
T 14 : C ≥11
T 15 : C ≥12
T 16 : C ≥12

*foobar2000 is freeware // for a cross-platform solution, see here.

The results can be saved for comparison purposes with further trials, if one wishes to do so.

Have fun!

[...] The new files are now uploaded and ready to go. Here's the folder link again. [...]

 

[BDWoody]

I think I can answer that

Because some people really, really, really, really like music

I mean to a degree even I can't fathom and I own 9 subwoofers

And, I have a lot of 'extra' gear accumulated over 30 or so years that can be set up, used and still enjoyed.

When I get the whole place sync'd up playing as one big 'group,' through my CCA's and Roon, it's pretty cool... Gotta say.

 

[vavan]

When I get the whole place sync'd up playing as one big 'group,' through my CCA's and Roon, it's pretty cool

Even group of cheap portable jbl speakers sound cool orchestrated by jbl connect mobile app

 

[BDWoody]

Even group of cheap portable jbl speakers sound cool orchestrated by jbl connect mobile app

Absolutely. There's something about having the air filled with music... It is almost always on around here.