Center channel for Home Theater

[LightninBoy]

Your poll and post is confusing to me. I read your poll to imply you would compromise on the mains (L/R) in order to have identical speakers across the front. For example, say you can't put a floorstander in the middle, so you get bookshelf speakers across the L/C/R to match everything identically.

Anyways, my philosophy (for movies, and assuming evidence based speakers) is get the best speaker you can afford and physically accommodate at each position. Identical speakers across the front is nice, but is not critical for movies. Do not compromise on L/R to match the C. And do not compromise on the C to match with the L/R.

Since you used Revels as an example, I'd be fine mixing Revels - even from different product lines - without any worry of timbre matching.

 

[Descartes]

I used to have three B&W 800D2 in the front and they worked great! But I decided for a change of brand and am now searching for my next audio experience!
In the meantime I am using “bookshelf” speakers. I just don’t want to spend that kind of money anymore.

 

[Descartes]

Well, most affordable (and worthwhile) traditional 3-way center channel is the Infinity RC263 for US$150 (when on sale).

A traditional 3-way center channel that has the best "preference score" is the Revel C426Be.

Super expensive!

 

[Costes]

Hi all!

I'm currently thinking about buying either the bookshelf Monitor Audio Silver 7g 100 as L/C/R OR the 300 as mains and the C250 (3-way) as center. I have 2 SVS Micro 3000 subs and I currently use B&W 606 as left/right and one of the two 607 that I originally bought as surrounds as center. Thing is, even if I go for 3x the 100, the center one will not be at the same height as the left and right, it will be about 8 inches lower, but I'm not sure whether this would have a big impact.

Below you find a picture of the room, when watching a movie I draw all the curtains to minimize reflections (the other sub is behind the couch). Any thoughts or recommendations on that are much appreciated!

 

[Chrispy]

Depends on a few things for room/display type and position but ideally for me it would be three same speakers across the front, I have that only in one of several setups myself, the others use more traditional center speakers/placement. The typical center speaker is just a compromise, just depends on what compromises you need to make.....

 

[freemansteve]

I don't see a need for a centre speaker. What problem does solve?

My TV sits between my main speakers, and I also have a pair of subs on the floor. I have literally had to walk up to the main speakers to satisfy myself that sound is coming from them rather than from the speakers in the TV sometimes (notwithstanding the sound is massively clearer especially for dialogue). Friends watching big movies have said the whole back wall disappears into a wall of sound (in a nice way!)

My point is that the sound stage effect works, in that a person speaking in the centre of the picture absolutely sounds central, while a sound or person, say to the left, is exactly where you expect it. I think a centre speaker may just add to sound clutter and room problems.

 

[Trell]

I don't see a need for a centre speaker. What problem does solve?

My TV sits between my main speakers, and I also have a pair of subs on the floor. I have literally had to walk up to the main speakers to satisfy myself that sound is coming from them rather than from the speakers in the TV sometimes (notwithstanding the sound is massively clearer especially for dialogue). Friends watching big movies have said the whole back wall disappears into a wall of sound (in a nice way!)

My point is that the sound stage effect works, in that a person speaking in the centre of the picture absolutely sounds central, while a sound or person, say to the left, is exactly where you expect it. I think a centre speaker may just add to sound clutter and room problems.

When you are not sitting in the main listening position a center speaker helps anchoring the sound to the center.

 

[freemansteve]

When you are not sitting in the main listening position a center speaker helps anchoring the sound to the center.

Ah! OK!
I can see that, for TV material maybe, where the audio data includes a specific centre channel.
But for music, not so much I think.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Ah! OK!
I can see that, for TV material maybe, where the audio data includes a specific centre channel.
But for music, not so much I think.

Have you compared the mono sound of solo voices/instruments from a center speaker with that from a stereo pair?

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Have you compared the mono sound of solo voices/instruments from a center speaker with that from a stereo pair?

I have and they definitely sound different. The human auditory system is a powerful device that does a convincing job of interpreting equal sound from two stereo speakers as coming from the center point between them in a satisfactory illusion. But quickly switching back and forth between a phantom center and a true center reveals that there is a significant difference in sound with no interpretation required for the single source sound to be perfectly centered.

 

[ex audiophile]

Are there any blind comparisons to substantiate either opinion?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have and they definitely sound different. The human auditory system is a powerful device that does a convincing job of interpreting equal sound from two stereo speakers as coming from the center point between them in a satisfactory illusion. But quickly switching back and forth between a phantom center and a true center reveals that there is a significant difference in sound with no interpretation required for the single source sound to be perfectly centered.

Agreed but I would be more interested in your perception of the tonal quality of the sound.

 

[Teeter]

@Costes I would prefer the fronts being from the same mfg.

The center channel is very important for DD movie listening/dialog.

Why a Center Channel Speaker is Needed in Surround Sound - GuideBits

The most significant differences between stereo and home theatre surround sound is the requirement for a dedicated center channel speaker.

www.guidebits.com

Why You Need a Center Channel Speaker

The Center Channel speaker in a surround sound home theater setup is critical for the best listening results.

www.lifewire.com

Find a nice horizontal center channel and try and get it in line with the bottom of the TV. Or buy a door stopper, to angle the center channel towards your ears. Speakers that are front ported, can be shoved pretty close to the back wall. Others, rear ported, generally need 6"+ out from the wall. The front speakers don't have to be in line with one another or at the exact same height. I would suggest not skimping on the center channel and or afford what you can.

TV viewing distance: how far away should you sit?

What is the ideal TV viewing distance?

www.techradar.com

 

[freemansteve]

Have you compared the mono sound of solo voices/instruments from a center speaker with that from a stereo pair?

Works fine for me, in that I perceive all the instruments and voices, left to right, very precisely, but in fairness - I don't have much mono material, maybe early Stones and Beatles is all the mono I play? Even then, it sounds like it's coming from the centre of the entire back wall...

And with multi-channel films, the HDMI feed seems to mix down to stereo fine - it's 'only films' after all, and a voice in the centre of the TV screen seems to come from there, even when I'm forced to sit the sofa to the side (being the least important person in my house!). Also, I live in a modest house, so cluttering the lounge with speakers is an issue, and maybe I just don't get it with multi-channels....

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Agreed but I would be more interested in your perception of the tonal quality of the sound.

When I did my comparison I wasn't specifically listening for tonal quality but for overall sound impression. My recollection is that centered dialog from two separate stereo speakers generally sounds more diffuse and expansive as if being processed when directly compared with the same dialog from a single center speaker which generally sounds more focused with less perceived ambience and reverb. I suppose that might also be described as a noticeable difference in tonal quality.

Though my comparison was not conducted scientifically surely audio science would support that dialog coming from a single centered speaker is more like what we hear from a live person in the room with us speaking through their single mouth. I'm pretty sure if someone had two mouths several feet apart speaking the same words at the same time our auditory systems would process the voice as coming from the center point between the two mouths. But it would sound as different as it would look when compared to the same words coming from a single mouth.

 

[Tom C]

I think the difference is more like having one ear vs. two. That’s my suspicion in the case of Brian Wilson’s reported preference for mono vs. stereo. I read where he’s deaf in one ear.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

When I did my comparison I wasn't specifically listening for tonal quality but for overall sound impression. My recollection is that centered dialog from two separate stereo speakers generally sounds more diffuse and expansive as if being processed when directly compared with the same dialog from a single center speaker which generally sounds more focused with less perceived ambience and reverb. I suppose that might also be described as a noticeable difference in tonal quality.

The vocabulary is sticky but I agree with what you say but, also, that the center speaker sound is also somewhat more fully fleshed out when compared with the stereo pair (whether they are getting the mono or the stereo source).

Perhaps the best case for a center channel speaker is made by comparing the RCA Living Stereo or Mercury Living Presence SACDs and switching from the stereo tracks to the three-channel tracks.

 

[Oilman]

The vocabulary is sticky but I agree with what you say but, also, that the center speaker sound is also somewhat more fully fleshed out when compared with the stereo pair (whether they are getting the mono or the stereo source).

Perhaps the best case for a center channel speaker is made by comparing the RCA Living Stereo or Mercury Living Presence SACDs and switching from the stereo tracks to the three-channel tracks.

Many AV processors have “center spread” which combines the center channel with some of the center channel mixed into the front L and R. Best of both worlds and sounds best IMO.

 

[Tom C]

The vocabulary is sticky but I agree with what you say but, also, that the center speaker sound is also somewhat more fully fleshed out when compared with the stereo pair (whether they are getting the mono or the stereo source).

Perhaps the best case for a center channel speaker is made by comparing the RCA Living Stereo or Mercury Living Presence SACDs and switching from the stereo tracks to the three-channel tracks.

I’ve tried this with Pines/Fountains of Rome and Scheherazade, the only two like that I’ve been able to get my hands on (the MLP titles have been unobtainium, up to this point). I find it challenging to tell the difference between the two. Might be my own physical limitations. My visual depth perception isn’t the very best, either.

 

[Soundmixer]

Unless you're frequently listening to multi-channel music, a center channel does not need to match the rest of the speakers, or come from the same brand. The idea that the "timbre" must be matched with like speakers is a myth that won't die.

This is insanely bad advice. Your center SHOULD be timbre matched - and better yet, have similar performance capabilities as the Left/Right speakers. A pan across the front soundstage will quickly reveal a dissimilar center channel, especially when it comes to timbre. I wish bad advice would die.