Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[solderdude]

IEC 62368-1 is mandatory for electronics sold in the US, EU and some other countries like Canada, Japan Australia but not UK as of dec 20th 2020.
This covers regulations for classes 1, 2 and 3
The amp in question is bought after dec. 2020 so should have complied to this when sold in the US.

It does not matter if the manufacturer puts stickers or prints on the back or in the manual or on their website, that isn't mandatory.

My point is it should comply to safety standards that were in place when these were sold. This amp clearly wasn't complying.
A question is do the current models comply ?

 

[atmasphere]

Looked at the post, you were responding to someone that asked if there were regulations/certification requirements in the US, you responded "No" and that certification was expensive.

That wasn't me. I just pointed out that the point was made that early on, earlier than the '20 pages' you had suggested.

The point being made (as you originally asked) over and over again after you clearly laid it out, was a lack of UL rating or CE certification.

Again, not me. UL is expensive; CE mark is not. But if you really can justify the CE mark you'll meet UL as well. All beside the point- and the point of my prior post was: why produce something dangerous in this day and age? There's no good reason for it since the fix is so inexpensive.

Except all it takes is a tuner connected to a masthead amplifier, or a cable box or sometimes even just a turntable ground to render your 'resistors' from RCA outer to chassis smoking ruins and an almighty hum in the system from a (now) floating input.

We all did the 'resistor' to input chassis RCAs back in the day when building (or attempting to) build hum-free amps. I haven't seen it done for decades on commercial offerings- mainly because they all gave up and went to so-called double insulated products.

If the resistor burns up, the chassis is still grounded. Yay! And you'll have a buzz. The sort of thing that might require attention. When the service tech looks at it, they will know that something wonky was going on with the AC power. Plenty of commercial offerings still do some variant of this nowadays since metal chassis are still quite common. For example dual rectifiers placed in parallel with each other but reversed so current can flow in either direction, thus allowing the audio circuit to float. I imagine they would explode if a real fault occurred. That would get any service personnel's attention and they would be playing the dumb card to not have a conversation with the customer about it.

 

[mhardy6647]

So I am going to continue to fla[g] what is unsafe in my opinion in hopes of industry changing their ways and buyers asking for such measures.

No kidding around -- the thing about this site that sucked me in was my discovery of the teardown posts and photos in your reviews! I love to see what makes this stuff tick, be it aesthetically awesome, embarrassingly sloppy, or - in some cases - blatantly unsafe.

 

[Cbdb2]

I don't want any discussions about it, only responded when it was first raised as proof it was "defective" when this all started. Apparently many continue to believe that the lack of a UL rating is a "violation" or shows "proof positive" it is defective. I addressed why I think it's relevant and important for this Forum in the response just before this.

It's a specific part of the review of this product that it didn't have any stickers. The conclusions about that in this thread have been all over the map, and some clearly wrong. Assuming Amir continues to note (as he should) whether a product has any rating sticker, it's an issue that may rear up again, who knows.

Do they sell these amps in Canada?

From: https://www.betterhearingsolutions.ca/betterhearingsolutions/audio-loops-1/product-safety

"In Canada, any equipment that is connected to the electrical system must be tested and certified to meet Canadian standards."

 

[dieselmilk]

Guys, the amp doesn't suck, it's that you have to measure it in a very specific and rigged way to make it look good when it isn't.

 

[amirm]

Guys, the amp doesn't suck, it's that you have to measure it in a very specific and rigged way to make it look good when it isn't.

We don't even know if such rigged measurements exist. None were provided with proper documentation to show such.

 

[fpitas]

We had the solemn word of one rather obvious troll that some guy he couldn't name told him that Amir measured it all wrong. That if it was measured correctly though, it would blow our minds. But he couldn't tell us how exactly that measurement was to be performed. But it would be good, honest! Seems legit!

 

[mhardy6647]

Guys, the amp doesn't suck, it's that you have to measure it in a very specific and rigged way to make it look good when it isn't.

Bob et al. should license the technology to Volkswagen.

(too soon...?)

 

[atmasphere]

We had the solemn word of one rather obvious troll that some guy he couldn't name told him that Amir measured it all wrong. That if it was measured correctly though, it would blow our minds. But he couldn't tell us how exactly that measurement was to be performed. But it would be good, honest! Seems legit!

Something to do with some sort of feedback connection.

What is ignored with that explanation is something called Kirchoff's Law, which says that there can't be any more or less energy in a system than is applied to it.
We have 15Watt output transformers, made by a known entity (Encor). We have a lightweight power transformer: the stereo amp weighs 19 pounds. So where is the extra energy coming from? If it were really able to meet its power spec, a new branch of physics would have been created and the world's energy problems solved.

 

[fpitas]

Something to do with some sort of feedback connection.

What is ignored with that explanation is something called Kirchoff's Law, which says that there can't be any more or less energy in a system than is applied to it.
We have 15Watt output transformers, made by a known entity (Encor). We have a lightweight power transformer: the stereo amp weighs 19 pounds. So where is the extra energy coming from? If it were really able to meet its power spec, a new branch of physics would have been created and the world's energy problems solved.

Even his feedback connection excuse made no sense. Amir uses a differential probe. Sometimes, a troll is just a troll.

 

[atmasphere]

Even his feedback connection excuse made no sense. Amir uses a differential probe. Sometimes, a troll is just a troll.

Well, in case it wasn't obvious from my prior post, feedback does not allow for a means to create more power Occam's Razor does suggest that your assessment has merit. Add to that the most powerful motivation known to man (not money, its 'looking good', failing that, to not look bad...) and the story is laid out more plainly.

 

[mhardy6647]

If it were really able to meet its power spec, a new branch of physics would have been created and the world's energy problems solved.

Imagine the pundits' reactions if vacuum tube audio amplifiers were the fulcrum for the green revolution.
You know, I almost wish it were true...

 

[mhardy6647]

I just got an email from Bob Carver! Maybe some of y'all did, too?!

It's interesting to see I am still on their email list. Perhaps I won't be by later today...

 

[fpitas]

I just got an email from Bob Carver! Maybe some of y'all did, too?!

It's interesting to see I am still on their email list. Perhaps I won't be by later today...

If you call, be sure to ask about Amir's test results

 

[mhardy6647]

aerospace grade audio...
I don't know what that means.

 

[fpitas]

aerospace grade audio...
I don't know what that means.

Train Wreck grade is more like it

 

[mhardy6647]

Oh -- so I was gonna try to find a place in the ad to click for more information (because, you know, I have an open mind towards all things Carver, as a good objective thinker), and here's all I could find.

Probably goes without saying that the link associated with the button wasn't to the Carver Command Center.

 

[fpitas]

Oh -- so I was gonna try to find a place in the ad to click for more information (because, you know, I have an open mind towards all things Carver, as a good objective thinker), and here's all I could find.
View attachment 255648
Probably goes without saying that the link associated with the button wasn't to the Carver Command Center.

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

[fpitas]

Probably those engineers work so hard to get 0.5% THD, they have no time for customers.

 

[amirm]

I just got an email from Bob Carver! Maybe some of y'all did, too?!

It's interesting to see I am still on their email list. Perhaps I won't be by later today...

Interesting that power rating is stated for short period of time!