Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[caught gesture]

My opinion is that the review and the measurements presented are wrong and potentially libel. Just my opinion, that is all. The comments from the peanut gallery are of no concern to me.

Aren’t you also in the gallery?

 

[caught gesture]

It's insanity.............

…or arrogance.

 

[DFW]

Since you seem to be seeking some defamation so that you can deflect the discussion away from the fraudulently spec'd electrocution hazard that is the Carver Crimson 275 and instead make it about your insulted and hurt personal feelings, how about this: You sir are a troll and a moron.

Well thank you. You really are a smart one aren’t you?

 

[DFW]

So does anyone know of someone actually being electrocuted by this thing?

 

[Xulonn]

..

Where did I say I would pick one up "New" or cause it was "Pretty"?

Are you just trolling us?

You didn't specifically use those words, but any person with normal intelligence and a decent education would be able to understand why I responded as I did - and my response was definitely not a strawman, as my below responses indicate. You seem to have extreme difficulty in understanding the meaning of what others are saying.

1. Buying with the intent of returning something if you don't like it implies buying a new product. Very rare with used products, which you could then resell, but not return.

2. Since anyone with even a rudimentary comprehension of the science of psychoacoustics knows that you very, very likely could not identify the Carver in a double-blind test, I assumed that there must be another reason for you to want one. And the Carver's attractive physical appearance is obvious - and the only reason I could think of for buying it.

If there is another factor that makes this amplifier attractive to you compared to other amplifiers with similar performance?

 

[JP]

I knew I'd be poking the beast when I joined and posted this. It was not a knee jerk reaction as some of you have inferred. I've consumed plenty of info on this topic over the past couple of weeks, have read Carver's response on their website etc etc.

After further review:

I want to see Bob's test results. I want to see a video of a test showing the results. Would not be hard to do and it might clear all this up. If it was my name and product I'd be defending it a lot more than what we've seen so far. How about it Bob?

How many times does Bob need to say it is exactly what was intended? Note that the measurements were never contested.

3. Are the Edcor 15w OPTs part of the design?

Yes. They work quite well driving loudspeakers. In combination with back EMF feedback, and our DC restorer tracking bias supply, the ability of a tube amp to increase voltage with increases in impedance at low frequencies is inherent in my design. Together, these make music as a system.

It has come to my attention that my amplifier design has come under sharp criticism on this forum. I am compelled to say that the 275 is safe as it is wired and assembled, and performs as it was designed. If a customer were to choose to utilize the earth ground pin of the IEC plug (to be connected to the chassis), this can be done at no cost. This design was well considered, and follows a long history of excellent products.

The 275 is a powerful, easy to listen to amplifier. I am happy with its design. In fact, this is one of the best designs I have produced. If for any reason a customer is disappointed in the performance or sound quality of this amplifier, they may return it for a full refund. The general reception of the 275 to date has been that of a high quality design, one that does not disappoint in any respect. The performance as it was measured by Amir does not do justice to the sound engineering of the 275.

I am not going to explain or attempt to refute the reasoning behind each criticism that has been made, the product speaks for itself and stands on its history of satisfaction. This amplifier was not designed to measure the best, it was designed to sound the best, and it does so at an affordable price in relation to products it might be fairly compared to. It is unfortunate for this type of bad press to make such an impression on people not directly familiar with the amplifier.

In conclusion, such criticism would be much harder to support in the presence of a 275 playing music. It would be all but impossible to argue that it’s deficient in any way when you experience the actual musical performance. I stand by that. The sound character of this amplifier is exactly what I wanted it to be. For any person with a 275 wanting to change the grounding or get a refund, email [email protected].

Over and out,
Bob Carver

 

[Doodski]

So does anyone know of someone actually being electrocuted by this thing?

What is the basis of this question?

 

[alashikata]

I remember this guy, he posted some things about making the VTA-125 more quiet due to how the wiring was not connected properly on some VTA-125's.

Wiring was a small issue. He and another guy fix a few problem to get the specs correctly where he listed detail how to on his website. However, Bob Latino refused to fix it. But others have bought before said it's beautiful sound. So it's up to others want to fix that or keep as it.

 

[Blumlein 88]

So does anyone know of someone actually being electrocuted by this thing?

Any such people aren't around to post their experience here.

 

[DSJR]

I seem to remember comments about continuous power output vs the old fashioned 'Peak Music Power' ratings that some makers used to fool the unwary. No excuses for the exact wording of the specs, but doesn't it deliver the thick end of 70W in the midrange on *peaks* while falling back to 20W or less continuously?

Serge may remember this, but there was a nice wood-finish active speaker made by a small firm in the UK west country with digital as well as analogue inputs. They never ever published specs nor submitted said speaker for rigorous third party testing apart from subjective vibes in the UK rags and Sound on Sound. The amp for the bass unit was rated at 250W output into the 'four ohms' main driver (a custom SB unit). Some on a large UK based audio forum disputed this as they'd seen the size (not spec though) of the transformer and reservoir supply and said that this bass-mid amp just cannot 'do' the power levels boasted of in a continuous conventional manner.

Someone 'over the pond' bought a pair, took the amp out and measured the driver impedance as well as the bass amp output. Firstly, the driver impedance was 4 ohms at DC, but increased to 8 at several hundred Hz I recall and higher still around 1kHz. The amp was then found to give practically the 250W on very short term pulses into 4 ohms loading but if said pulses were made more 'continuous,' the supply sagged and the output declined to more like 100W at 4 ohms (from memory) and 72W at 8 ohms. Thing is, if the sales director had said it was a 100W amp with driver protection (vis a vis the sagging supply), I think more people would have believed him. The poor chap who posted his findings ended up being banned from the maker's forum never to be heard from again.

So, coming back to the thread, am I right in remembering this amp is almost certainly loosely specified on the 'Peak Music Power' rating rather than a traditional (and maybe more honest?) continuous one. If poster DFW has read it all, I feel they should note that many experienced peeps here have suggested this amp should be rated at 15WPC but with substantial peak output for well recorded music (or whatever spin you want to put on it).

 

[DFW]

What is the basis of this question?

The product has been called an electrocution hazard in this thread.

 

[Doodski]

The product has been called an electrocution hazard in this thread.

It is a electrocution hazard. Do you dispute that?

 

[Blumlein 88]

not questioning it, I'm say I want him to try and explain why a small tranformer like that is ok in that amp. cause when the question was asked in an email he danced around it. I want him to show how this is fine and why it works fine even if the transformer say 15 watts.

When I wanted to build a SET amps with 845 tubes, I looked into good iron and I liked the Monolith Magnetics and they were big and expensive. All the transformers were bigger and more expenisive (James, Electro Print, Tango) so I know that more wattage output the bigger the OPT, but I want to hear how his are ok to use and them being only15 watts.

Let me guess what Bob might say. Perhaps he found a transformer in overload/saturation momentarily produces a more colored and in his opinion more subjectively beautiful sound. So he built an amp with 15 watt xfmrs to which he connects big enough power tubes for 75 or 90 watts, and they can momentarily hit that level even thru the little transformers and even sound better than if he had 75 watt xfrms. Since music is dynamic and not a static signal the amp may perform about as well as an actual 75 watt continuous design and sound even better while being lighter and cheaper. Win, win, win all the way around.

At the least Bob should have rated these as 15 watt amps with an unusually high momentary dynamic peak power. Which may allow one to get away with using it where you normally need 75 watts.

All this is being rather generous.

 

[DFW]

It is a electrocution hazard. Do you dispute that?

I don’t know weather it is or not. While I appreciate all the information presented out here I’m just asking if there are any known electrocutions.

 

[Doodski]

I don’t know weather it is or not. While I appreciate all the information presented out here I’m just asking if there are any known electrocutions.

I have not read of one. On the flip side I recommend not taking a electrical shock from a tube amp. There is not only the risk of electrocution but also broken bone(s) from the muscle reaction. Been there and had a good zap from a different amp than this type and it's pretty harsh.

 

[SIY]

I don’t know weather it is or not. While I appreciate all the information presented out here I’m just asking if there are any known electrocutions.

Well, since I haven't gotten killed in a car crash yet, I don't need seat belts.

 

[SIY]

Let me guess what Bob might say. Perhaps he found a transformer in overload/saturation momentarily produces a more colored and in his opinion more subjectively beautiful sound. So he built an amp with 15 watt xfmrs to which he connects big enough power tubes for 75 or 90 watts, and they can momentarily hit that level even thru the little transformers and even sound better than if he had 75 watt xfrms. Since music is dynamic and not a static signal the amp may perform about as well as an actual 75 watt continuous design and sound even better while being lighter and cheaper. Win, win, win all the way around.

At the least Bob should have rated these as 15 watt amps with an unusually high momentary dynamic peak power. Which may allow one to get away with using it where you normally need 75 watts.

All this is being rather generous.

Unfortunately, there's the uncomfortable matter of rating the power at 20 Hz... can't fool Mother Nature. No peak or momentary thing is going to rescue the fraudsters.

 

[AudiOhm]

The product has been called an electrocution hazard in this thread.

I mentioned it 90 or so pages back. The hot wire is switched while the neutral is fused.

Page 5...

Ohms

 

[wwasilev]

I seem to remember comments about continuous power output vs the old fashioned 'Peak Music Power' ratings that some makers used to fool the unwary. No excuses for the exact wording of the specs, but doesn't it deliver the thick end of 70W in the midrange on *peaks* while falling back to 20W or less continuously?

Serge may remember this, but there was a nice wood-finish active speaker made by a small firm in the UK west country with digital as well as analogue inputs. They never ever published specs nor submitted said speaker for rigorous third party testing apart from subjective vibes in the UK rags and Sound on Sound. The amp for the bass unit was rated at 250W output into the 'four ohms' main driver (a custom SB unit). Some on a large UK based audio forum disputed this as they'd seen the size (not spec though) of the transformer and reservoir supply and said that this bass-mid amp just cannot 'do' the power levels boasted of in a continuous conventional manner.

Someone 'over the pond' bought a pair, took the amp out and measured the driver impedance as well as the bass amp output. Firstly, the driver impedance was 4 ohms at DC, but increased to 8 at several hundred Hz I recall and higher still around 1kHz. The amp was then found to give practically the 250W on very short term pulses into 4 ohms loading but if said pulses were made more 'continuous,' the supply sagged and the output declined to more like 100W at 4 ohms (from memory) and 72W at 8 ohms. Thing is, if the sales director had said it was a 100W amp with driver protection (vis a vis the sagging supply), I think more people would have believed him. The poor chap who posted his findings ended up being banned from the maker's forum never to be heard from again.

So, coming back to the thread, am I right in remembering this amp is almost certainly loosely specified on the 'Peak Music Power' rating rather than a traditional (and maybe more honest?) continuous one. If poster DFW has read it all, I feel they should note that many experienced peeps here have suggested this amp should be rated at 15WPC but with substantial peak output for well recorded music (or whatever spin you want to put on it).

See post #9

Bob Carver 275 Stereo Vacuum Tube Amplifier

Thought I'd give this worthy thread on the BOB CARVER - Crimson 275 Stereo Tube Power Amplifier. 75W - 90W into 4-ohms is more than enough power for all of our speakers. I just can't understand why there has not been more noise about this KT120 tube amp. I'd also like to better understand how...

audiokarma.org

It was presented as 90W continuous, measured.

 

[Shazb0t]

I don’t know weather it is or not. While I appreciate all the information presented out here I’m just asking if there are any known electrocutions.

You really are an apologist.. It's sad.