• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

Rate this amplifier

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 379 95.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 9 2.3%

  • Total voters
    399

SaltyCDogg

Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
99
Likes
273
Tests or no tests... Have you heard an amazing hi fidelity stereo system? ... Likely one that costs a lot of money? It would bring you to tears and the name Topping, SML or what have you would vanish from your brain. [Granted, I've heard expensive stuff that sounded no better than mid-fidelity audio]. The point is the entire industry is not fraudulent. And, the other point is, there's no way with a gun pointed to my head, that I would take the top rated amplifier on this site, Benchmark, over something else that would be called audio jewelry or something.
With all due respect, it doesn't sound like you enjoy high fidelity, you enjoy a lot of harmonic distortion, that's fine and up to you. But you should probably be clear in your own head about that. Let's remember this is the 2nd worse measuring amp Amir has tested out of hundreds.
 

DimitryZ

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 30, 2021
Messages
667
Likes
342
Location
Waltham, MA, USA
"What I tried to articulate in my first post is that all of us here surely recognize that the “high end” audio business is nearly 100% based on what many would consider fraud.".

Fraud exists. But nearly100% is based on fraud?

Tests or no tests... Have you heard an amazing hi fidelity stereo system? ... Likely one that costs a lot of money? It would bring you to tears and the name Topping, SML or what have you would vanish from your brain. [Granted, I've heard expensive stuff that sounded no better than mid-fidelity audio]. The point is the entire industry is not fraudulent. And, the other point is, there's no way with a gun pointed to my head, that I would take the top rated amplifier on this site, Benchmark, over something else that would be called audio jewelry or something.

Carver's problem is grossly weak tests versus ballsy representations, coupled with build quality issues (including a safety concern)--to the tune of $3k.
I have owned an amazing hifi system at $50k.

I happily traded it for a $15k system that both sounded great and measured great.

Now I listen to more music.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,451
Likes
36,883
"What I tried to articulate in my first post is that all of us here surely recognize that the “high end” audio business is nearly 100% based on what many would consider fraud.".

Fraud exists. But nearly100% is based on fraud?

Tests or no tests... Have you heard an amazing hi fidelity stereo system? ... Likely one that costs a lot of money? It would bring you to tears and the name Topping, SML or what have you would vanish from your brain. [Granted, I've heard expensive stuff that sounded no better than mid-fidelity audio]. The point is the entire industry is not fraudulent. And, the other point is, there's no way with a gun pointed to my head, that I would take the top rated amplifier on this site, Benchmark, over something else that would be called audio jewelry or something.

Carver's problem is grossly weak tests versus ballsy representations, coupled with build quality issues (including a safety concern)--to the tune of $3k.
You ever hear about the big audio show where Wilson was demoing a system up against a top of the line B&W system in the same large space. The B&W system cost even more than the Wilson. Wilson had its Sophia speakers, and appropriately expensive source, preamp and power amp. It ended up being voted by show goers as the better system. Amazing hi fidelity for sure. Tears to your eyes and all that.

Only Wilson pulled a fast one. After it was over Wilson let it be known the actual source was an early 16 bit Ipod hidden behind the shelving, they did use the expensive preamp, and then had a hidden $1000 Parasound power amp. Perhaps that would bring tears to your eyes for different reasons. 2004 CES show in Vegas.

What was the reaction from people? That if he had used a real quality source and power amp it would have sounded even better. That Wilson was being dishonest by trying to make people think they should spend 80% of their money on his expensive speakers and get buy with pedestrian electronics. It was unfair to those expensive CD and power amp makers like Krell et al. I tell you belief among humans is an amazing, powerful and bewildering thing.
 
Last edited:

EchoChamber

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2020
Messages
673
Likes
925
With all due respect, it doesn't sound like you enjoy high fidelity, you enjoy a lot of harmonic distortion, that's fine and up to you. But you should probably be clear in your own head about that. Let's remember this is the 2nd worse measuring amp Amir has tested out of hundreds.
I have heard many, many very expensive audio systems here in the NYC area in the mid 2000’s in shows and owners homes, some in the hundreds of thousands and few sounded really good. Most exaggerated some part of the spectrum and some had gross distortions that could be interpreted as enhancing the sound, but very few sounded neutral, that didn’t cary their sonic signature across records. Few gave me the illusion of being in a live venue (which I like going because I love music, but also to help keep my personal subjectivity honest). Of course, recording quality has a lot to do with it. One thing that many of these systems could do though was play very loud, big speakers with a healthy reserve of power can move a lot of air…
 
Last edited:

JohnVF

Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2021
Messages
93
Likes
99
Tests or no tests... Have you heard an amazing hi fidelity stereo system? ... Likely one that costs a lot of money? It would bring you to tears and the name Topping, SML or what have you would vanish from your brain. [Granted, I've heard expensive stuff that sounded no better than mid-fidelity audio]. The point is the entire industry is not fraudulent. And, the other point is, there's no way with a gun pointed to my head, that I would take the top rated amplifier on this site, Benchmark, over something else that would be called audio jewelry or something.
I have a lot of experience listening to the current crop of high end gear, and know several people in the industry including some, who I call friends, who very sincerely trade in 'tweaks' that I find entirely suspect. They're sincere in their belief, really...at least my one good friend is. So I wouldn't call it fraud as much as I'd suggest there's naivety even at the dealer level. And while I know that expectation bias exists in all of us, I think that some people are just more ripe for it than others. But there are outright charlatans and I have seen them behind the scenes letting their mask down a bit.

But to answer this question, even though not directed at me. I have heard amazing hi fidelity systems. A lot of them. Some cost thousands and a few were over a million dollars. I've also heard bad hi fi systems in both of those price brackets. All that said, the best sound systems I have ever heard were all in professional recording studios. And while a lot of that gear was -very- expensive, especially the custom monitors, none of it looked like most of the 'hi fi jewelry' you speak of. It looked more like the Benchmark amp you denigrated. And the ADCs and DACs weren't pretty (but some of them were indeed expensive).

Personally I have a mixture of objectively chosen gear, and gear that I admittedly preferred for subjective reasons. The camps aren't as black and white as the online tribalism would suggest. You can prefer something for illogical reasons and it doesn't hurt anybody, while also acknowledging that adding objectivity into the decision process is NOT a bad thing at all. Especially in an industry as rife with obvious charlatans and easy marks as this one.

As for the Topping DACs and high end systems... my Topping D70 sits alongside my (original msrp) $11,000 EMM Labs SACD player and sounds every bit as good. Don't assume that all of us who run such things as the Topping haven't heard the stuff you consider to be 'high end'.

Now, for the amp in question... for many of us it isn't so much about this amp as it is a final straw for the way hi fi companies have been openly insulting of the intelligence of us, their customers. This is my first post here, though I've taken many of the measurements here into account, before, when buying things. For the life of me I cannot figure out why anybody thought Mr Carver was a magician who could do what no other tube amp designer could do with 19lbs or metal, especially when listening to both him and this Frank fella talk about it in the most obvious used-car-salesman schtick. There's a fanboyism that gets ahold of some people in this hobby that makes them turn off even the most basic elements of common sense. Whether or not you want to use pure objectivity to pick your gear or not, I don't see how holding some of these feet to the fire to defend their extraordinary claims is a bad thing.
 

anmpr1

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
3,713
Likes
6,388
Dynaco is another company which has taken a circuitous route through history through multiple owners (Sound Values, Panor, and who-know-who-else) yet their product is essentially intact and accounted for at DynaKitParts.com, from whom I've purchased some parts to keep my Dynas going. I don't know what they do with chassis grounding with the new production of the classic designs, but Dynaco amps always more or less met their specs.

Another such company is SAE which is still going strong under the ATI, Theta, BGW, and Datasat umbrella and the same owner/designer (Morris Kessler) who founded the company. I'd put Morris right up there with the other legendary designers.
I have built a couple of the dynakit-dot-com products. They are essentially replicas of the original. The difference, of course, is that the transformers are new, wound to original Dyna specs, with other parts new copies of originals. Chassis are actually better, being stainless steel. The 7199 driver tube is no longer made, so if you don't want the run down NOS, you can buy a version with the substitute 6GH8A tube, or use the socket adaptor. Worthwhile upgrade to the original is probably replacement of the rather flimsy speaker terminal strip with an optional five-way binding post.

For those who want something 'different' than the standard item, one can substitute any of the 'modern' mods from Curcio or Latino. Frank van Alstine has been offering Dyna mods since before Dyna, and evidently still has them for sale. I'm sure there are many others, out there. As a point of interest, ARC once offered Dyna mods. Old timer tweakos may recall the Paoli mod, which was once Gordon Holt's reference. There's defintely some history behind it all.

FWIW, if anyone is even thinking about this Carver, or really, any expensive tube amp, I'd first suggest that they get one of the kits. Dynakits are easy to build, you'll not only have fun, but you will have pride of ownership along with satisfaction of accomplishment that goes with the build. You'll also be part of true audiophile history.
 

anmpr1

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
3,713
Likes
6,388
All a shame really, but I guess it's no different with bands and musicians, playing the major stadiums in the 70s and 80s, only to wind up with a singer found on YouTube and playing every Indian Casino they possibly can to continue to do what they enjoy.
I'd make a slight correction. Most Casinos are now made at the Epiphone factory in China (Qingdao), although a few (much more expensive) are made in the USA, at the Gibson factory. I think some Elitist Casinos were made in Japan, and still might be. But I never heard of any Casinos being made in India. :facepalm: [I know... no one likes a smart-ass!]
 

jbhiller

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
107
With all due respect, it doesn't sound like you enjoy high fidelity, you enjoy a lot of harmonic distortion, that's fine and up to you. But you should probably be clear in your own head about that. Let's remember this is the 2nd worse measuring amp Amir has tested out of hundreds.
Salty, you are 1/2 correct. If you define high fidelity as equipment that measures well, yes I enjoy that very much. You should see my stable or audio museum, as my spouse calls it. I'm "pretty clear in [my] head about it" too. That may be confusing to you as you may view things as being mutually exclusive--i.e. people either like one or the other.

It's very true that there's a lot of puffing, fraud, commercialism, and so on in this industry. So much so, that I respect people who say, hey if Topping makes something that tests better than a Luxman, I'll go the Topping route. I get it. I just don't believe in absolutes in this area.

And I agree, this amp measured poorly. I have a 300B amp that probably would too and I still enjoy it.
 

EchoChamber

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 22, 2020
Messages
673
Likes
925
I have a 300B amp that probably would too and I still enjoy it.
Would you call it "high fidelity"?

Perhaps not per this definition:

Screen Shot 2022-01-24 at 10.23.35 AM.png
 

jbhiller

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
107
I think my 300B tests really well but only up to 1-2 watts. It's also a bit unique in that it uses some negative feedback and is not pure SET. It also has transistors in the power supply side of the equation! Blasphemy. :)
 

jbhiller

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
107
I like Benchmark very much. I didn't want to "denigrate" it above. If it reads it that way, please excuse me. I was unartfully trying to give an example.
 

jbhiller

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
107
I'd make a slight correction. Most Casinos are now made at the Epiphone factory in China (Qingdao), although a few (much more expensive) are made in the USA, at the Gibson factory. I think some Elitist Casinos were made in Japan, and still might be. But I never heard of any Casinos being made in India. :facepalm: [I know... no one likes a smart-ass!]
I owned a made in Korea Epi Casino. Then they moved production elsewhere. The Korea models' build quality was really good based on the samples I saw and played.
 

Vladimir Filevski

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
546
Likes
711
And I agree, this amp measured poorly. I have a 300B amp that probably would too and I still enjoy it.
Well, no. There is not a single manufacturer who declares their 300B SE amplifier will output more than 10W output power. Most of the manufacturers declare about 8W output power, and all measurements of 300B SE amps I am aware of show 7 - 8W continuous power output at 3% THD. So, maybe all 300B SE amplifiers measured poorly distortion wise, but they don't lie about their power output capabilities.
The problem with the Carver Crimson 275 amp is: they lie about amp power output and distortion.
 

Inner Space

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
1,285
Likes
2,938
I'd make a slight correction. Most Casinos are now made at the Epiphone factory in China (Qingdao), although a few (much more expensive) are made in the USA, at the Gibson factory. I think some Elitist Casinos were made in Japan, and still might be. But I never heard of any Casinos being made in India. :facepalm: [I know... no one likes a smart-ass!]
I think he meant folks reduced to playing small gigs in casinos owned by Native American tribes, surely.
 

mhardy6647

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2019
Messages
11,068
Likes
23,889
Personally I have a mixture of objectively chosen gear, and gear that I admittedly preferred for subjective reasons. The camps aren't as black and white as the online tribalism would suggest. You can prefer something for illogical reasons and it doesn't hurt anybody, while also acknowledging that adding objectivity into the decision process is NOT a bad thing at all. Especially in an industry as rife with obvious charlatans and easy marks as this one.
I concur (FWIW) and I resemble these remarks! ;)

I would opine that the big problem (and this pervades our post-Al-Gore-inventing-the-internet world ;) ) is that there is very little space left for the middle-path approach to much of anything nowadays.
Maybe just a phase -- one can hope.
I'm not too sanguine :(
 

jbhiller

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
107
I have a lot of experience listening to the current crop of high end gear, and know several people in the industry including some, who I call friends, who very sincerely trade in 'tweaks' that I find entirely suspect. They're sincere in their belief, really...at least my one good friend is. So I wouldn't call it fraud as much as I'd suggest there's naivety even at the dealer level. And while I know that expectation bias exists in all of us, I think that some people are just more ripe for it than others. But there are outright charlatans and I have seen them behind the scenes letting their mask down a bit.

But to answer this question, even though not directed at me. I have heard amazing hi fidelity systems. A lot of them. Some cost thousands and a few were over a million dollars. I've also heard bad hi fi systems in both of those price brackets. All that said, the best sound systems I have ever heard were all in professional recording studios. And while a lot of that gear was -very- expensive, especially the custom monitors, none of it looked like most of the 'hi fi jewelry' you speak of. It looked more like the Benchmark amp you denigrated. And the ADCs and DACs weren't pretty (but some of them were indeed expensive).

Personally I have a mixture of objectively chosen gear, and gear that I admittedly preferred for subjective reasons. The camps aren't as black and white as the online tribalism would suggest. You can prefer something for illogical reasons and it doesn't hurt anybody, while also acknowledging that adding objectivity into the decision process is NOT a bad thing at all. Especially in an industry as rife with obvious charlatans and easy marks as this one.

As for the Topping DACs and high end systems... my Topping D70 sits alongside my (original msrp) $11,000 EMM Labs SACD player and sounds every bit as good. Don't assume that all of us who run such things as the Topping haven't heard the stuff you consider to be 'high end'.

Now, for the amp in question... for many of us it isn't so much about this amp as it is a final straw for the way hi fi companies have been openly insulting of the intelligence of us, their customers. This is my first post here, though I've taken many of the measurements here into account, before, when buying things. For the life of me I cannot figure out why anybody thought Mr Carver was a magician who could do what no other tube amp designer could do with 19lbs or metal, especially when listening to both him and this Frank fella talk about it in the most obvious used-car-salesman schtick. There's a fanboyism that gets ahold of some people in this hobby that makes them turn off even the most basic elements of common sense. Whether or not you want to use pure objectivity to pick your gear or not, I don't see how holding some of these feet to the fire to defend their extraordinary claims is a bad thing.
Agreed!
 

jbhiller

Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Messages
45
Likes
107
Well, no. There is not a single manufacturer who declares their 300B SE amplifier will output more than 10W output power. Most of the manufacturers declare about 8W output power, and all measurements of 300B SE amps I am aware of show 7 - 8W continuous power output at 3% THD. So, maybe all 300B SE amplifiers measured poorly distortion wise, but they don't lie about their power output capabilities.
The problem with the Carver Crimson 275 amp is: they lie about amp power output and distortion.
I’m confused. You are saying no to me saying my 300 b would measure poorly? I’m quite certain it does measure poorly. Also I’m very familiar with how much 300 B tunes put put out when using a single power tube per side. I’m pretty sure it tests pretty clean in the first watt and then distorts quickly. I’m not sure what you are saying I’m wrong about. It’s 8 w per side.

Off to by some music.

Sad about the Carver debacle. Oh well.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,451
Likes
36,883
I’m confused. You are saying no to me saying my 300 b would measure poorly? I’m quite certain it does measure poorly. Also I’m very familiar with how much 300 B tunes put put out when using a single power tube per side. I’m pretty sure it tests pretty clean in the first watt and then distorts quickly. I’m not sure what you are saying I’m wrong about. It’s 8 w per side.

Off to by some music.

Sad about the Carver debacle. Oh well.
I think Bob's next project should be a 300B amp. Make them monoblocks. He should be able to magic about 45 wpc out of a single 300B SET don't you think?

I always wanted to try a pair of these Manley 300B's.
 
Top Bottom