Carver Crimson 275 Review (Tube Amp)

[audio2design]

Mr. Carver no longer is involved with any company that bears his name. Calling him a felon, when he bears no shame of conviction against his name, is in fact slander.

It would be best for you to stick with what you know personally from experience rather than try to impose your esteemed knowledge of how things work in the UK upon us here in the US. We may share the same language, but we are very different when it comes to how things get done.

When did he leave? He was chief designer at the end of 2020, but I have not followed closely.

 

[audio2design]

"So you are asking us if an adapter that you called "cheater" is compliant then why the Carver amp isn't?"
Actually no, I wasn't asking that. "Cheater" is my term for it. You can buy them at Best Buy. I know it's compliant as a device to disconnect the ground pin. I also pointed out that many electronics components come without a ground pin. The question expressed differently, is: why does the Carver unit require one? I believe paulbottlehead may have already provided the information I was looking for.

Compliant to what?

 

[Blumlein 88]

The USA can be laissez faire in places to a surprising degree. A couple of the counties adjacent to the one I live in have effectively no electrical inspection. It is highly cursory at best. I've seen atrocious things and wonder why more places don't burn down. A relative called me a few years back because when they delivered the new washer and dryer, to their brand new house the washer just blew the breaker as soon as plugged in. Repeatedly. The people delivering the washer didn't have a clue and said it was a bad washer and they would bring another tomorrow.

I told them it sounded like they had connected the live side to either neutral or safety ground. Indeed that is what I found and rewired it for them. I used a checker and found 6 more such outlets. I found some more that the safety ground wasn't connected to anything.

Then there was the fairly new house for sale I looked at one time. Built by the owner. One end of the roof had shifted and sagged. I went up to look at why, and the owner said be careful not to get on the roof. He said the 1/4 inch decking wouldn't hold me. I said you mean the 3/4 inch decking. Nope he had used 1/4 inch luan as he said all the decking does is hold the shingles in place. I was no longer interested after finding that out and wondered how it was still up. The roof was also 2x4's over much too long a run. His floor joists were 2x6 when they should have been at least 2x8 if not 2x10 for how long they were. Incredible and scary.

 

[john2017]

Your post shows how little you understand the legal systems here in the U.S.

You are correct it the NFPA70/NEC is not a Federal Law, however, almost all states write it into law, and then municipalities/cities may add in additional restrictions and requirements. Not every jurisdiction is at the same release, but this has been on the books for some time. Not a regulation, but a law.

While not a felony, any number of legally enabled bodies could call for and enforce a recall. If someone is hurt, there could be criminal implications if the negligence is wilful. Really it is not much different from Europe though regulatory bodies have more teeth there in general. FCC can also force a recall as well. They can also block importation.

So you tell me that I don't understand the law, but then tell me I am correct on both of the points I made in that post...

 

[DimitryZ]

Just to sum up.

Amp is not constructed to modern safety standards. This is definitely uncool. I have modified equipment from the Middle Kingdom that suffered from the same oversight.

Tube amps constructed to the same standard killed VERY few over many decades.

Personal risk of ownership is very low.

Bob Carver, at at an advanced age, likely has very little control of the manufacturer's BOM for this amp.

My recommendation is not to pile on the obvious problem, but let the actual owners assess their concerns.

P. S. During my time at the Institute, my floor buddies - all physics majors - "liberated" a giant capacitor from one of the old labs. Every day, after charging the beast, they would throw something conductive across the terminals to "study" its' response to high charge. Everyone learned to cover their eyes to protect against molten metal or ablated plastic remnants.

They only got into mild trouble - "double secret probation" - when they exploded a battery of roman candles fireworks inside the inner "courtyard" of the dorm at midnight, which required multiple visits from the Cambridge fire department to make safe.

 

[audio2design]

Consumer product electrocutions went from about 2.5/million/year in the 70's to about <0.15 today. Every little bit help.

 

[traderitch]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I have made inquiries to Carver dealers asking if they will be describing what modifications will be made to the units they receive from owners.
My understanding is this information will be included in the release.
I am not a representative of the company.

I was merely responding to the narrative in context. The the omission of the UL/CE designation on the 275 is not unique. There are countless highly esteemed
manufacturers that have released products without the designation. I simply stated two examples.

Please explain in detail what the modification should entail. I apologize if this has been stated in another post I may have missed. I would like to know as it relates to my personal amplifiers.

I have never subscribed to the belief that bad behavior is justified by other bad behavior.
Thank you for interpreting my statements to fit your narrative.

 

[DimitryZ]

Consumer product electrocutions went from about 2.5/million/year in the 70's to about <0.15 today. Every little bit help.

That statistic certainly sounds horrible. Do 150,000 people get killed today from consumer electrocution?

In the US, it's certainly an alarming number of 177 people per year from all electricity related deaths.

https://www.esfi.org/workplace-safety/workplace-injury-fatality-statistics/

 

[traderitch]

Where I come from, 'ignoring' is not 'breaking'. As you say, wording is important...

The point I was making should have been obvious and didn’t merit your response.

 

[paulbottlehead]

That statistic certainly sounds horrible. Do 150,000 people get killed today from consumer electrocution?

203 million people in 1970 would mean about 500 people per year back then. 330 million people in 2020 at the new rate would be 50 people.

 

[DimitryZ]

203 million people in 1970 would mean about 500 people per year back then. 330 million people in 2020 at the new rate would be 50 people.

Thank you for clarifying! It's tragic nevertheless, but not as horrible as I initially imagined.

We made good progress.

 

[audioholic63]

? We do live in a litigious society nowadays. Just look at the warnings on a new toilet seat.

Not to lick it?

 

[Zackthedog]

Let's move on folks...

Good luck! ;-) Seems pretty harrmless all the same. BTW, I am FAR from an audio objectivist but I do enjoy your site and have bought several satisfying components based on your recommendations. I find your evaluations, especially when it comes to budget gear, very useful. Nothing like a good buy!

 

[paulbottlehead]

Thank you for clarifying! It's tragic nevertheless, but not as horrible as I initially imagined.

We made good progress.

Yeah you really don't want to be the manufacturer of 1 of those 50 devices!

 

[DimitryZ]

Yeah you really don't want to be the manufacturer of 1 of those 50 devices!

Of course.

But statistics suggest that the chances of that are very low.

Serious manufacturers are obviously not willing to take that chance.

That the maker of the amps in question is willing to do this in the US - the most litigious country ever - is alarming.

At the same time, let's not suggest that these amps will kill you on contact, like anthrax. The risk is FAR lower than the risk you take driving your car every day.

 

[restorer-john]

That statistic certainly sounds horrible. Do 150,000 people get killed today from consumer electrocution?

The term 'electrocution' always meant to be killed by electric shock to me. But electrocution doesn't have to be fatal it can also mean a serious injury from electricity.

Not sure exactly when/why the definition changed- it makes no sense, I mean electrocute- execute- you can't be half dead. Well, I guess those guys that didn't die from the electric chair the first time are proof it doesn't have to be fatal.

 

[Zackthedog]

The USA can be laissez faire in places to a surprising degree. A couple of the counties adjacent to the one I live in have effectively no electrical inspection. It is highly cursory at best. I've seen atrocious things and wonder why more places don't burn down. A relative called me a few years back because when they delivered the new washer and dryer, to their brand new house the washer just blew the breaker as soon as plugged in. Repeatedly. The people delivering the washer didn't have a clue and said it was a bad washer and they would bring another tomorrow.

I told them it sounded like they had connected the live side to either neutral or safety ground. Indeed that is what I found and rewired it for them. I used a checker and found 6 more such outlets. I found some more that the safety ground wasn't connected to anything.

Then there was the fairly new house for sale I looked at one time. Built by the owner. One end of the roof had shifted and sagged. I went up to look at why, and the owner said be careful not to get on the roof. He said the 1/4 inch decking wouldn't hold me. I said you mean the 3/4 inch decking. Nope he had used 1/4 inch luan as he said all the decking does is hold the shingles in place. I was no longer interested after finding that out and wondered how it was still up. The roof was also 2x4's over much too long a run. His floor joists were 2x6 when they should have been at least 2x8 if not 2x10 for how long they were. Incredible and scary.

A house where you can't walk on the roof? Crazy.

 

[restorer-john]

A house where you can't walk on the roof? Crazy.

You can at Lionel Richie's place:

 

[SIY]

Please explain in detail what the modification should entail. I apologize if this has been stated in another post I may have missed. I would like to know as it relates to my personal amplifiers.

I would refer you to the detailed descriptions of the proper way to do tube amp grounding for both safety and noise performance in Morgan Jones's Building Valve Amplifiers. It costs about 2% of the amp price and is a valuable reference to have.

Free engineering consulting for the unethical manufacturer and dealers is an unreasonable thing to ask, and I would strongly suggest for others to resist the urge to explain exactly how grounding should be done in this amp to avoid hum after the safety aspect is dealt with. Here's the reference, they can do their own work.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

Here's the reference, they can do their own work.

Here is another, excellent grounding article by Merlin Blencowe, available through his site for free.

http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/Grounding.pdf