Car Audio

[AudioStudies]

I would be very interested to get some opinions on car audio topics: installs in kick panels, A-Pillars, sails, for tweeter and mid-range drivers, and also subwoofer issues. Also open for discussion are amps with built-in DSP, and what constitutes a state of the art system, or just below SOTA in the more affordable realm.

Kick panels seemed to be "the thing" years ago, but it seems to me they have fallen out of favor a bit. I wonder if this is because of the advanced DSP that is perhaps rendering the kick panels unnecessary? A related question is then, has advanced DSP obviated the need for non-stock locations for speaker drivers?

I have two cars with audio systems, a 2011 Jaguar XJL and a 2014 Camaro RS Convertible.

In the Jag, I have a 3-way system plus a subwoofer. I have used stock locations for the woofers, mid-ranges, and tweeters and these are JL Audio C7 series. The Subwoofer is a JL Audio W3, and this 8-incher is not in a stock location; rather I had a box built that fits in the center between the two rear seats firing towards the front. There are no drivers in the trunk of the Jag, but the within the trunk are a JL Audio VXI 8-channel amp and a Mobridge device to interact between the Jag electronics and the amp.

I am very, very happy with this system in the Jag, and the tuning and time alignment capability of the VXI line of amps. So I am curious, do you think the sound could be improved significantly by doing something with kick panels or A-pillars? What other ideas for improvement do you think would be good, or that I should rule out?

 

[Wes]

post a pic of where the tweeters are now

 

[AudioStudies]

post a pic of where the tweeters are now

At the moment the Jag is at the Auto Upholstery shop -- getting new leather on the driver's seat. From memory, I think the tweeters are located high in the door and very close to the front, and they are directed at each other.

 

[AudioStudies]

I am also curious about car audio systems with two sets of tweeters. Is that a significant advantage? If so, what are the placement considerations within the vehicle?

 

[NTomokawa]

First up, great cars you got!

Personally, I think the automobile cabin is a remarkably poor environment for any kinds of "high-fidelity" audio. Even if you can perfectly correct for the large amount of reflections in such a constrained space, you still can't account for external noise intrusion.

I figure as long as it sounds great and you don't have a trunk of rattling bass, you're good to go!

Personal opinion, of course.

 

[AudioStudies]

First up, great cars you got!

Thank you. The Jaguar needed one whole helluva lot of repairs this year, but the car is so damn beautiful that I want to keep it the rest of my life. It is exotic, luxurious and powerful -- why would I think it wouldn't be expensive? I agree the automobile cabin has so many obstacles to good sound. Nevertheless, we spend a lot of time in our vehicles, and audio helps during stop lights or even worse traffic jams. In some ways, that makes it an interesting challenge. I suspect the reason that I haven't seem much posted on ASR about car audio is due to these obstacles. The Camaro, being a convertible, provides opportunity for better sound with the top open. External noise is certainly noticeable, but the Jaguar was designed to be a quiet car and in the Camaro, I had the Dynamat installed.

 

[Zog]

Dynamat certainly works. And the more the better. The next best thing is to get top tires. I installed Bridgestone RE-003s and they were worth a couple of db in road noise. The choice of audio gear is less important. Probably best to get tweeters at ear level.

 

[Wes]

yes, dampening material - cover 25% of the area of every panel in the car then look a the info on the Cascades Audio website

you have heavy cars, so the wt. increase is not a huge increment

I also looked up your Jag's interior - best tweeter placement would be at the base of the A pillars where they meet the dash - 3D print yourself some enclosures to blend into the area

 

[AudioStudies]

best tweeter placement would be at the base of the A pillars where they meet the dash

Thank you. Can you please explain the reasons why tweeter placement would be best there?

 

[Jdunk54nl]

It all depends on what frequencies you are trying to play in reality.

Doors are ok for a normal 6.5" woofer up to about 1000hz, much beyond that and beaming begins. A 3.5" will be around 2000hz before beaming begins. A 1" tweeter about 9000hz.

I am guessing you have the 6.5" is crossed below that threshold so you are good there. The 3.5" and the tweeter probably could do better depending on how on axis the stock locations are. We've all seen Amir's and Erin's speaker measurements on vertical and horizontal directivity. These things don't go away in a car.

By placing the speakers physically wider, it will help with stage width, placing them higher can help with height. Placing them farther out in front of you helps with the depth. This is why A-pillars are used for mids and tweeters, it is usually at ear height, far into the dash, and near one of the widest parts you can get. Although, all of the reflecting surfaces create a whole other set of issues.

All this being theoretically of course, every car is different on best placement. I would suggest getting some towels, pulling the speakers, and testing different positions of where the speakers sound/measure the best without EQ. you don't want the eq for one spot impacting the other so no EQ usually works best and I prefer measuring to see the best not just my ears.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

I would also suggest https://resonixsoundsolutions.com/ for your CLD needs. It is amazing stuff.

You might also want to check out caraudiojunkies.com. A lot of smart people hang out over there.

 

[AudioStudies]

I would also suggest https://resonixsoundsolutions.com/ for your CLD needs. It is amazing stuff.

You might also want to check out caraudiojunkies.com. A lot of smart people hang out over there.

I may try out this Resonix for my Jag. I will check with my shop to see if they carry it. The Camaro already has Dynamat installed. Thanks for all the info.

 

[egellings]

Never understood the ridiculously outsized subwoofers often found in cars. A 32" sub powered by 5kW in a car? Why on earth?

 

[Doodski]

Never understood the ridiculously outsized subwoofers often found in cars. A 32" sub powered by 5kW in a car? Why on earth?

I specialised in car audio/mobile electronics circuit level repair for some years. 4 foot long amplifiers, $1200.00 tape head units, minidisc, DAT and all sorts of interesting things. It appears excessive and it is but it sure is fun to own and operate.

 

[egellings]

I can see all the cool ways to get music into a car; it's just the outrageous SPL part I don't get.

 

[Wes]

if windows are open, you are ~~ at free space

besides, you need a lot of oompah to vibrate the other cars at the intersection

 

[egellings]

I 'spoze. But my poor eardrums, though.

 

[AudioStudies]

I can see all the cool ways to get music into a car; it's just the outrageous SPL part I don't get.

Agreed. I am definitely not of the SPL crowd. So far, I have stuck with small subs, 8-inchers.

 

[NTomokawa]

it's just the outrageous SPL part I don't get.

And that rusty old Civic hatchback with a trunk full of rattling bass driving around the block in the wee hours of the morning.
Or cruiser motorcycles with machine gun-like exhaust noise, for that matter.

I will never understand.

 

[Doodski]

And that rusty old Civic hatchback with a trunk full of rattling bass driving around the block in the wee hours of the morning.

Hehehe. That sums it up nicely...lol... Myself my last performance car audio system was worth 4 times the cars worth. It sure made road trips across provinces a pleasure to drive.