Cancelled: $50 from 5 People, Pioneer RM-07 (Or other coaxial alternative) to Amirm

[Jon AA]

doesn't look like it tries to control diretivity like several of the higher scoring speakers here do. Good for a DIY project I imagine, but very different than what I'd like to have tested.

It's actually pretty well controlled--just very wide:

(Measured by James Larson, Audioholics).

I would expect it to score pretty well. But no, its vertical certainly wouldn't make you happy.

 

[stevenswall]

Or just get a Phantom?

(full disclosure, I own a Devialet Expert Pro, but not a Phantom, so I'm probably brand biased)

I'd love too. Had a pair and returned them. Just need to find out where to get the installer ones. Hate the app. Just want to wire them up and play them. Not the powerline Ethernet stuff, and no wifi.

 

[stevenswall]

. But no, its vertical certainly wouldn't make you happy.

Yeah, bitterly biased against non-coaxial drivers or speakers without good vertical dispersion after hearing a few that don't have that issue. Bugs the daylights out of me hearing something sound broken when I stand up to get water or want to sit on the floor.

 

[stevenswall]

The best active fully coaxial <$1500 is likely the KEF LSX. The Stereophile measurements show it has much smoother off-axis performance compared to the LS50.

Wish I had off axis of the RM-07. The on axis seems smoother, and about +7dB more SPL if I have to place them back in corners.

I think a lot of these speakers kill themselves by chopping off their bass extension which helps the scoring from what I understand.

 

[Jon AA]

Yeah, bitterly biased against non-coaxial drivers or speakers without good vertical dispersion after hearing a few that don't have that issue. Bugs the daylights out of me hearing something sound broken when I stand up to get water or want to sit on the floor.

Out of curiosity, I did some calculations..... Even in our current (hopefully temporary) small room where I'm sitting much closer to the speakers than I'd like, the angular difference in ear height from sitting to standing works out to be a whopping 14 degrees with my current setup. Sitting is -4, standing is +10. I'm not 12 years old anymore, so I don't sit on the floor. But the cat tells me the sound quality is lousy down there.

 

[Ilkless]

View attachment 64741Looking to split the cost of this to send a unit to Amirm. I'd pay $100, and need six others. It's a coaxial speaker that I think would be great for surround speakers in an active setup. Only measurements I can find are of the port, and Pioneer's own.

http://www.pioneerproaudio.com/en/studio/studiospeakers/rm_0705.html

Open to other suggestions, but looking for something that is a cheaper alternative to the highest scoring Genelec 8341 speaker currently, and these look like they could be used for surrounds easily with how compact they are. Less expensive, hopefully not too cheap sounding. I also like that they paid attention to diffraction and have extremely rigid, cast aluminum housings.

Not sure what to do with it after if one of the other people contributing wants it. If it scores close to the Genelec 8341 I'd be interested in it, or maybe whomever wants it shipped to them after testing can pay the others $50 back each?

Even cheaper coaxial option I'd be interested in would be the Tannoy Golds that are out now, or maybe something as cheap as the Fluid Audio FX 80, though that I doubt will score higher than the IN-8s that I already have.

Note: Not sure how backed up Amirm is, or if there's a post for "how to send/submit a speaker" but that would be useful if we settle things and there are like minded people.

A pdf of independently-measured high-res polars and FR exists. Mediocre stuff.

 

[Jon AA]

Mediocre stuff.

I'd say that's putting it kindly.

 

[Ilkless]

I'd say that's putting it kindly.

Yeah, it's no TAD, not even Pioneer S-1EX.

 

[stevenswall]

A pdf of independently-measured high-res polars and FR exists. Mediocre stuff.

Damn, that is pretty bad. Thanks for finding that! I expected much, much better dispersion without the typical blobs of two ways. Guess this goes to show that if you don't have things lined up and the tweeter is offset there can still be blobs in the dispersion graphs.

Question: Can someone explain what the red line is on the first graph? I think it should show a peak at the lowest part, and then smoothly decline to a low point without the extra saw tooth interruptions.

 

[q3cpma]

That Emes is what I'd call a speaker for men.

Damn, that is pretty bad. Thanks for finding that! I expected much, much better dispersion without the typical blobs of two ways. Guess this goes to show that if you don't have things lined up and the tweeter is offset there can still be blobs in the dispersion graphs.

Question: Can someone explain what the red line is on the first graph? I think it should show a peak at the lowest part, and then smoothly decline to a low point without the extra saw tooth interruptions.

View attachment 64816

Looks like phase.

 

[stevenswall]

That Emes is what I'd call a speaker for men.

Looks like phase.

Yeah, definitely phase, just not sure why it has so many edges and what the ideal is and what that means in layman's terms.

 

[stevenswall]

Update: If anyone is interested in a much better speaker being sent to Amirm, feel free to pledge to contribute here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...p-ship-a-genelec-8260-to-amirm-150-430.13539/

 

[amirm]

Yeah, definitely phase, just not sure why it has so many edges and what the ideal is and what that means in layman's terms.

It is not an "edge." It is just the way phase angles are shown. Think of how you go from 11:59pm to 12:00am. Just one minute increament swaps the AM and PM, putting them at opposite spectrum. Same thing happens with phase as it goes from 179 degrees to 180 and then -180.

There is an option for "unwrapping" of the phase that then shows it constantly declining/incrementing but then the scale gets ridiculous as you keep changing it with frequency.

 

[stevenswall]

It is not an "edge." It is just the way phase angles are shown. Think of how you go from 11:59pm to 12:00am. Just one minute increament swaps the AM and PM, putting them at opposite spectrum. Same thing happens with phase as it goes from 179 degrees to 180 and then -180.

There is an option for "unwrapping" of the phase that then shows it constantly declining/incrementing but then the scale gets ridiculous as you keep changing it with frequency.

That makes more sense. I heard it explained once that you could wrap a phase plot around a cylinder and that would make more sense... If you cut the cylinder along its length though, it makes those instant transitions because you have to represent it in 2D.

 

[napilopez]

A pdf of independently-measured high-res polars and FR exists. Mediocre stuff.

Everytime I think there are no/few measurements for a particular speaker there comes up some german source with extensive information

 

[Ilkless]

That Emes is what I'd call a speaker for men.

Miles better than SEAS' implementation of the same driver (Loki kit). Crossed very low (1.7kHz), excellent polars (even with a high-res polar map), marred only by the 10kHz on-axis dip. Lower measured noise than the Pioneer is impressive. Nice engineering.

I tried contacting them about buying it overseas, but no reply. Looked on their reseller's websites. Designs gradually fell out of stock without being restocked, even for their latest design (promising, with an XT25 in a milled waveguide crossed low). Makes me assume the worst, which is a shame...

edit: I just realised you meant the exceptionally phallic polar map.

 

[Sancus]

Everytime I think there are no/few measurements for a particular speaker there comes up some german source with extensive information

I wish it was easier to find these infinite sources of german information. Even just a database of everything S&R has measured would be incredible, their website seems to only contain a small number of random reviews.

 

[Ilkless]

I wish it was easier to find these infinite sources of german information. Even just a database of everything S&R has measured would be incredible, their website seems to only contain a small number of random reviews.

S&R has a paid compilation of ~80 speakers with measurements till ~2018.

Ideally, the publishers would somehow be informed that there is significant appetite for their data outside of Germany, in English-speaking markets. They don't have to make it free, but I do think an updated paid database is something I would buy. Many German magazines (Stereo.de, Stereoplay, Hifitest, i-Fidelity, Fidelity Online, Klang + Ton for DIY) I've seen do at least measurements of some sort, with a few doing high-res on and off-axis FR (S&R being the most consistent).

These Polish guys also do some basic measurements (0-15-30 horizontal, 7-0-7 vertical up and down, response with grille).

Even without measurements, German and Polish reviews seem to be much more willing to do teardowns of even high-end speakers.

 

[Vindermere]

active speaker with coaxial drivers (seas coax driver), KS digital but more expansive than the pioneer . Maybe the small one : C5 reference

 

[Ilkless]

active speaker with coaxial drivers (seas coax driver), KS digital but more expansive than the pioneer . Maybe the small one : C5 reference

C5-Reference measures great in some ways but oddly in the other. 10kHz null that is in every SEAS coax, and bumped up bass, but very flat from 250Hz to 9kHz with decent polar response. Sound and Recording magazine has released detailed measurements online. I think they charge a fair price for what they offer: biamplification, DSP crossover with phase linearisation, custom Norway-made SEAS kevlar coaxial, metal enclosure with hardwood trim, built-in adjustable stand, and made in Germany.