Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Snarfie]

I had to eliminate all of my LPs before making the biggest move of my life. I moved from a large house with plenty of room for LPs to a much smaller house with not even enough room for all the CDs I owned. Some of the LPs were quite rare - there were a lot of Celtic folk albums, including BBC field recordings, Dick Gaughan and Kathleen Ferrier, obscure performers like June Tabor. But I had a lot of friends in the Fresno Folklore Society, brought those LPs over to a weekly Jam session and let everyone know that they could take what they wanted. Fortunately, they did, so I knew that someone who appreciated that kind of music could listen to it. I also had nearly all of the grey-label early mono releases of Frank Sinatra on Capitol. Those were appropriated by someone who appreciated that music.

Not all albums are "fungible". Albums like these are very hard to replace with the same as there was a small supply in the first place and the supply gets smaller year by year. I wanted to be released from owning all these objects, but I also wanted the best of them to find new homes. But the LA fire meant that a lot of record collections literally went up in smoke. And to the people who collected these records over the years this is a big hit, with so many irreplaceable LPs.

So don't cry if that's where you're at, but don't expect anyone here cheering you on either.

Basicly if i was hit by a disaster first thing to do is besides my family is saving my personally items an my digital live (which is partly in the cloud) by grabbing my laptop in that order.
I was wondering regarding the vinyl community is this not the moment to consider to digitize your vinyl and or your cd collection. Besides the vinyl sleeves/art ( which i look at in my mediaplayer) the digital copy i agree is not emotionaly the same but i can assure you it sounds 100% identical or as @MatrixS2000 demonstrated beter than the original.. After all, it's about the music.

 

[MattHooper]

No, I did not read the article and I'm not gonna read 500+ posts to get caught up.

But I thought I was enough caught up relative to the present comment in the thread.

Perhaps I was wrong.

In any case, you are talking about rare albums that NO ONE HAS and WILL NEVER HAVE.

Of course that is different.

Congratulations, you have rare albums, My statement still stands.

Your statement still stands as a very shallow comment. It’s along the lines of “ I don’t care about those things so it’s silly for somebody else to care.”

You can lead a horse to empathy, but….

 

[Robin L]

Basicly if i was hit by a disaster first thing to do is besides my family is saving my personally items an my digital live (which is partly in the cloud) by grabbing my laptop in that order.
I was wondering regarding the vinyl community is this not the moment to consider to digitize your vinyl and or your cd collection. Besides the vinyl sleeves/art ( which i look at in my mediaplayer) the digital copy i agree is not emotionaly the same but i can assure you it sounds 100% identical or as @MatrixS2000 demonstrated beter than the original.. After all, it's about the music.

I guess with these rare/weird artifacts it's not just about the music. Holding one of these old/rare records is a different experience than listening to a file. I've done both and there is something very different in listening to one of the old BBC field recordings without the yellowed sleeve or one of the Sinatra LPs without a vintage inner sleeve. I don't feel the same way about the CDs, somehow they seem to be more "fungible".

Of course, in the event of some disaster the first thing I'd "grab" would be my cat. This has already happened some five years ago. Java doesn't take kindly to being grabbed, FWIW.

 

[MattHooper]

I was wondering regarding the vinyl community is this not the moment to consider to digitize your vinyl and or your cd collection.

For me, there is a little more boring or offputting than the idea of digitizing my vinyl.

I spent a hell of a lot of time ripping my CD collection and that was a total chore I never want to repeat.

I have all my work files backed up in three different places because that’s my livelihood.

But in terms of my vinyl collection, I guess I’d treat it something like if I were heavily into making my own furniture for my house. Or for that matter the Home Theater that I meticulously designed, and that was very expensive. If a fire happens, if it goes, it goes.

 

[Thomas_A]

I made a comparison of my flee-market find of the Hungaroton label Adam Medveczky/Budapest Philharmonic Orchestra version of "From the new world" with the Kubelik DG original source of the same. The flee-market price of the Hungaraton was ≈€1, in excellent condition, very quiet. The Hungaroton is not as hot cut as the DG, but seems at least as dynamic, although spectrum differs. Both are enjoyable, IMO.

The Hungaroton:

The DG original source:

 

[aagstn]

It might be survivorship bias: the old records we end up with now were in good enough shape for someone to hang onto, by and large.

Anecdotally, I have gotten a disappointing number of bad/noisy new pressings in recent years. I don't recall ever having this problem in the 70s/80s.

This has also been my experience. I think in the 80's I maybe returned 2 records because they were pitted or bubbled and sounded bad.
The cool thing in the 80's was you could return them so you didn't worry about it and the store could send it back to the label for reimbursement. The local record stores around me now have a no return policy for all vinyl because they are stuck with it and it costs too much for them to take a loss on returned vinyl.

For modern vinyl the culprit for me was GZ. If it had a made in Czech Republic or Canada on the package I knew it had a chance of being a problem. I had over two dozen problem records with bubbles, huge scratches out of the package or just terrible scratchy sound and all were pressed by GZ. I rarely had an issue with vinyl pressed by other plants. Vinyl from QRP and Optimal in particular are as flawless as I've ever heard records sound. However, you usually have to pay a premium for something like Rhino High Fidelity to get that quality. For me it came down to economics. Why bother paying $40 for a classic album from Rhino when a used CD will sound amazing for $5.

 

[Snarfie]

For me, there is a little more boring or offputting than the idea of digitizing my vinyl.

I spent a hell of a lot of time ripping my CD collection and that was a total chore I never want to repeat.

I have all my work files backed up in three different places because that’s my livelihood.

But in terms of my vinyl collection, I guess I’d treat it something like if I were heavily into making my own furniture for my house. Or for that matter the Home Theater that I meticulously designed, and that was very expensive. If a fire happens, if it goes, it goes.

I find it disturbing to know if i lost my music (besides disasters i fear more data loss HDD/SSD failure) i loose an important part in my live to truly relax. Such that a copy of my entire collection is backed up twice. Gear i can replace with in days/weeks my music will take months/years or longer an is costly. It is quite difficult especially ( if not impossible) to find a few hundred first press cd's which i have a lot (90%) containing all transients at the time the CD's where produced. So for mine peace of mind if it go's it is atleast duplicated/stored for (fast) retrieval containing exactly the same music quality/data as the original the day i bought it i guess that count for most of us independent if you collect Vinyl, CD'S or files.

 

[Galliardist]

I find it disturbing to know if i lost my music (besides disasters i fear more data loss HDD/SSD failure) i loose an important part in my live to truly relax. Such that a copy of my entire collection is backed up twice. Gear i can replace with in days/weeks my music will take months/years or longer an is costly. It is quite difficult especially ( if not impossible) to find a few hundred first press cd's which i have a lot (90%) containing all transients at the time the CD's where produced. So for mine peace of mind if it go's it is atleast duplicated/stored for (fast) retrieval containing exactly the same music quality/data as the original the day i bought it i guess that count for most of us independent if you collect Vinyl, CD'S or files.

It leads to an interesting question. In many countries, you have to own the original disc to be allowed to make a copy. The physical disc and the license to play the music are the same thing.

If a record or CD is destroyed by fire, you may still be technically in breach of the law. I doubt very much that a copyright owner would sue in those circumstances, but what if they did?

 

[Snarfie]

It leads to an interesting question. In many countries, you have to own the original disc to be allowed to make a copy. The physical disc and the license to play the music are the same thing.

If a record or CD is destroyed by fire, you may still be technically in breach of the law. I doubt very much that a copyright owner would sue in those circumstances, but what if they did?

Thats a good question i realy don't know. In Holland they still have a quite liberal way regarding original cd rips thats aloud but when it is destroyed probably the insurance claim would help proving that you owend the physicle Cd or Vinyl. But would you mind to use your digital copy in such situation?. Here in holland luckely we don't have a claim cultur suing for redicules amounts of money.

 

[MatrixS2000]

For me, there is a little more boring or offputting than the idea of digitizing my vinyl.

I spent a hell of a lot of time ripping my CD collection and that was a total chore I never want to repeat.

I have all my work files backed up in three different places because that’s my livelihood.

But in terms of my vinyl collection, I guess I’d treat it something like if I were heavily into making my own furniture for my house. Or for that matter the Home Theater that I meticulously designed, and that was very expensive. If a fire happens, if it goes, it goes.

Then you don’t want to attempt ripping vinyl, it will make CD ripping look like a walk in the park.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Thats a good question i realy don't know. In Holland they still have a quite liberal way regarding original cd rips thats aloud but when it is destroyed probably the insurance claim would help proving that you owend the physicle Cd or Vinyl. But would you mind to use your digital copy in such situation?. Here in holland luckely we don't have a claim cultur suing for redicules amounts of money.

Insurance should cover it. If something happened here, the first thing I would grab is my NAS as it has a lot more than just vinyl rips on it. I have been digitizing family pictures and film for years.

 

[Mark1]

I guess with these rare/weird artifacts it's not just about the music. Holding one of these old/rare records is a different experience than listening to a file. I've done both and there is something very different in listening to one of the old BBC field recordings without the yellowed sleeve or one of the Sinatra LPs without a vintage inner sleeve. I don't feel the same way about the CDs, somehow they seem to be more "fungible".

Of course, in the event of some disaster the first thing I'd "grab" would be my cat. This has already happened some five years ago. Java doesn't take kindly to being grabbed, FWIW.

I think it's very similar to viewing and holding a favorite old original photograph in your hand vs a digital pic on a screen. The former seems more "real" and true to life, even though it might not objectively be due to aging or fading etc. The digital pic seems a little more "artificial " and as if more a copy of the real thing, although this isn't really objectively or technically true.

I see a place for the value of subjectivity when it comes the end product of audio recordings such as vinyl vs CD vs streaming. Afterall what real value does an album really have than the subjective value we place on it? It's when someone tries to substitute subjectivity for objectivity and vice versa there's grounds for debate.

 

[MattHooper]

I find it disturbing to know if i lost my music (besides disasters i fear more data loss HDD/SSD failure) i loose an important part in my live to truly relax. Such that a copy of my entire collection is backed up twice. Gear i can replace with in days/weeks my music will take months/years or longer an is costly. It is quite difficult especially ( if not impossible) to find a few hundred first press cd's which i have a lot (90%) containing all transients at the time the CD's where produced. So for mine peace of mind if it go's it is atleast duplicated/stored for (fast) retrieval containing exactly the same music quality/data as the original the day i bought it i guess that count for most of us independent if you collect Vinyl, CD'S or files.

I have my ripped CD collection the comprised pretty much every CD I had bought since as far back as I can remember. It’s backed up several times and also with a copy stored offsite.

Doing that for my record collection would be way too much of a hassle. Plus, a lot of what I get from playing records comes with the combination of the physical aspects of the medium and not just the music and sound.
So even a digital back up wouldn’t preserve everything I like about records in the first place. To me there’s a certain “ yuck” factor of ripped vinyl - part of what I like about playing records is getting away from digital files and digital life

If my regular collection goes up in flames there still plenty of music to listen to. It would be a huge bummer to lose the record playing experience though.

I think it's very similar to viewing and holding a favorite old original photograph in your hand vs a digital pic on a screen. The former seems more "real" and true to life, even though it might not objectively be due to aging or fading etc. The digital pic seems a little more "artificial " and as if more a copy of the real thing, although this isn't really objectively or technically true.

Yep. There is an ephemeral quality to digital images. We are so absolutely swamped with digital images all day long, not to mention all the photos many of us take, it can feel like images have become devalued. There’s a major difference between flicking through tracks or album covers on my iPhone versus holding an actual album in my hand.
That’s also what many musical artists have said about their music on vinyl. I’ve seen countless bands and musicians say how satisfying it is when their record finally comes out on vinyl, there is something special about their efforts reaching that physical form, that they can hold in their hands and that their audience can hold in their hands as a physical object, rather than the music sort of being released into the ether in digital form.

 

[Petrushka]

To me there is a certain yuck factor in playing records.

I do things that take more than 15 minutes, and it’s annoying to have to deal with the record.

 

[Mark1]

Yep. There is an ephemeral quality to digital images. We are so absolutely swamped with digital images all day long, not to mention all the photos many of us take, it can feel like images have become devalued. There’s a major difference between flicking through tracks or album covers on my iPhone versus holding an actual album in my hand.
That’s also what many musical artists have said about their music on vinyl. I’ve seen countless bands and musicians say how satisfying it is when their record finally comes out on vinyl, there is something special about their efforts reaching that physical form, that they can hold in their hands and that their audience can hold in their hands as a physical object, rather than the music sort of being released into the ether in digital form.

I think CDs to a degree give you much of the physical and tangible substance and experience that vinyl does and added convenience without it to the point of being swamped and oversaturated and devalued. I have a similar preference for CDs to streaming. Although vinyl is too much effort for my tastes, I don't think there's always significant or noticeable sound quality advantage over vinyl with digital for reasons already discussed, so I can understand someone having a preference or appreciation for vinyl.

 

[MattHooper]

I think CDs to a degree give you much of the physical and tangible substance and experience that vinyl does and added convenience without it to the point of being swamped and oversaturated and devalued. I have a similar preference for CDs to streaming. Although vinyl is too much effort for my tastes, I don't think there's always significant or noticeable sound quality advantage over vinyl with digital for reasons already discussed, so I can understand someone having a preference or appreciation for vinyl.

I agree that CDs can fulfil a similar function for some people. We are all different of course.

Personally, I detest CDs in their physical form. There’s nothing at all attractive about them and I find the tactical quality of Jewel cases, not to mention their tendency to split and pop apart should they drop even a short distance, very off putting.

The only thing I miss from CDs is that some of them had terrific liner notes. Especially in the early days some of them had better liner notes than even some LP’s.

 

[Robin L]

I agree that CDs can fulfil a similar function for some people. We are all different of course.

Personally, I detest CDs in their physical form. There’s nothing at all attractive about them and I find the tactical quality of Jewel cases, not to mention their tendency to split and pop apart should they drop even a short distance, very off putting.

The only thing I miss from CDs is that some of them had terrific liner notes. Especially in the early days some of them had better liner notes than even some LP’s.

I got some CDs today, reissues of old favorites, where the packaging was improved as well as the contents and sound. The "Grateful Dead" collection of live performances from 1971 and "Grateful Dead/Europe '72" issues were updated by Rhino records, both in 2003. Instead of using jewel cases these use "Digipacks", cardboard exteriors with plastic interiors much like jewel cases but a bit sturdier. Both have expanded liner notes, unlike the LPs or the initial CD issues. They also have bonus tracks. In 2011 the entirety of the recordings made during the Dead's tour of Europe in 1972 were reissued as 73 CDs - I've recently seen a Conan O'Brien joke posted on Facebook "It has been announced that there will be an 80-disc set of the Grateful Dead about to be issued. It has not yet been announced what song they will be playing". In any case, another CD set I got today is a two-disc volume 2 of Europe '72, with no overlap of the previous issue of Europe '72. This set has no liner notes, just a booklet of photos from the concerts.

I prefer the Digipacks - they don't break when you drop them. I suppose what makes LPs visually appealing is how they have rainbow patterns when the light reflects off their surface as they spin. Not to mention the record covers. But I have no issues with the appearance of the CDs themselves, just the jewel cases.

 

[MatrixS2000]

I suppose what makes LPs visually appealing is how they have rainbow patterns when the light reflects off their surface as they spin.

There are way better things than just rainbow patterns on LPs to make them visually appealing:

 

[MattHooper]

I got some CDs today, reissues of old favorites, where the packaging was improved as well as the contents and sound. The "Grateful Dead" collection of live performances from 1971 and "Grateful Dead/Europe '72" issues were updated by Rhino records, both in 2003. Instead of using jewel cases these use "Digipacks", cardboard exteriors with plastic interiors much like jewel cases but a bit sturdier. Both have expanded liner notes, unlike the LPs or the initial CD issues. They also have bonus tracks. In 2011 the entirety of the recordings made during the Dead's tour of Europe in 1972 were reissued as 73 CDs - I've recently seen a Conan O'Brien joke posted on Facebook "It has been announced that there will be a 73-disc set of the Grateful Dead about to be issued. It has not yet been announced what song they will be playing". In any case, another CD set I got today is a two-disc volume 2 of Europe '72, with no overlap of the previous issue of Europe '72. This set has no liner notes, just a booklet of photos from the concerts.

I prefer the Digipacks - they don't break when you drop them. I suppose what makes LPs visually appealing is how they have rainbow patterns when the light reflects off their surface as they spin. Not to mention the record covers. But I have no issues with the appearance of the CDs themselves, just the jewel cases.

That Conan joke cracked me up!

Yeah, I can totally see the appeal of CDs for you and others.

I totally remember the excitement of the whole CD experience, not only included the improved sound, but the cool new packaging and new liner notes.

As I’ve mentioned, I’m really into soundtracks, and I have a number of soundtracks that are only on CD or which contain tracks that are only on the CD release.

For instance, one of my favourite scores of all time is Jerry Goldsmith score for the first Star Trek movie, and a while back a lengthy CD was released, remastered, with tons of previously unreleased tracks, alternative takes etc. (the same with Close encounters.)
It’s one of my most treasured parts of my music collection.

They eventually released a double vinyl album based on those remasters, which was an expanded score with a bunch of the stuff from the CDs. But the CDs still contained significantly more tracks.

 

[MattHooper]

There are way better things than just rainbow patterns on LPs to make them visually appealing:



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Yeah, I enjoy the pretty colours too!