Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Robin L]

BTW, I have two DG Original Source which I will pickup tomorrow. More of an interest what it is, but I’ll make a short rip for comparison.

Be sure to include the names of the works and the performers. I compare the rips with whatever I can find online, mostly Tidal. That Capriccio Italiano performance was represented (barely) on Tidal, I could compare the rip to the stream.

 

[Down South]

My previous turntable was a micro seiki which I enjoyed quite a lot. But I did notice a bit more fuzziness in the sound, especially when music mixes got really dense, or during orchestral climaxes.

When I replaced it with a “better” turntable cartridge, and arm (a German made high mass turntable) the most obvious thing that struck out was the amazing clarity, separation and detail was more along the lines of CD.
It didn’t matter how many instruments were in the mix, they tended to be beautifully delineated clear and clean sounding, same with many orchestral climaxes (unless there was an issue with the record pressing).

So I found the advantages between my digital playback, and my vinyl playback shrunk. What was left was mostly the subtle type of distinctions I’m talking about, in which sometimes I can favour vinyl, and sometimes I can favour digital, but I never feel like I’m slumming it listening to vinyl.

After years listening to music using first an AR and then Rega belt drives, my first d/d was a Technics SL-120 and that was a real shock - where was the noise. Then seeing a rec. for the best of the Japanese d/ds I bought a s/hand Kenwood KD990 - I could never think about buying a belt drive again. My first CDP was a Marantz 63 - the first generation and then a 63KI. I now have a Marantz 6009. I am happy to listen to both the 990 and the 6009.

I know that virtually all new LPs are inferior to the old stuff. Why would anyone want to buy new vinyl if it's so noisy especially if it's played on crappy cheap new decks. I would never rec. anyone get into vinyl if that's the case. The price of new 'eye candy' decks is crazy - look at the specs compared to the best of the Japanese d/ds and they are inferior - caveat emptor as always.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Why are direct drive turntables considered quieter than belt-drive turntables? I've seen several comments posted recently where people claim that switching to direct drive cut the noise for them, but I don't understand the engineering reason for this.

 

[Thomas_A]

Be sure to include the names of the works and the performers. I compare the rips with whatever I can find online, mostly Tidal. That Capriccio Italiano performance was represented (barely) on Tidal, I could compare the rip to the stream.

A rip (will be removed in a couple of days). Emil Gilels Brahms Piano concerto 1 DG (original source). Recorded straight into my Mac mini 44.1 kHz/24 bits via my Muffsy phono preamp, no noise or click removal.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Thomas_A]

A rip (will be removed in a couple of days). Emil Gilels Brahms Piano concerto 1 DG (original source). Recorded straight into my Mac mini 44.1 kHz/24 bits via my Muffsy phono preamp, no noise or click removal.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

After some listening. Have not compared to any digital versions, but must say that these are quite good recorded.

 

[MatrixS2000]

After some listening. Have not compared to any digital versions, but must say that these are quite good recorded.

This one is very good. There is TV flyback transformer hum on it at 15.7KHz. I removed it (and also further attenuated the surface noise and removed all clicks - there were 59). I can upload this version to your folder if you would like to compare.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Capriccio Italien op.45 by Slovac Philharmonic OrchestrA. It will never be good results with 32 min. 18-20 min max.

After listening to the first 5 min, I think it sounds pretty good considering the above.

 

[Thomas_A]

This one is very good. There is TV flyback transformer hum on it at 15.7KHz. I removed it (and also further attenuated the surface noise and removed all clicks - there were 59). I can upload this version to your folder if you would like to compare.

I do have the Clickrepair and ClickrepairRT during normal playing so no need. Hm TV transformer hum; I had my Panasonic plasma on while recording but that TV hum should be the related to CRT, or?

 

[MatrixS2000]

I do have the Clickrepair and ClickrepairRT during normal playing so no need. Hm TV transformer hum; I had my Panasonic plasma on while recording but that TV hum should be the related to CRT, or?

Yes it is CRT hum, it is in the recording not from your tv. I see it often. The oddest one was Pink Floyd’s The Wall. If you saw the movie, there is a point where Pink turns on a TV, that is where the CRT hum starts in the record.

PS there is also a backwards message in the album.

 

[MattHooper]

I know that virtually all new LPs are inferior to the old stuff. Why would anyone want to buy new vinyl if it's so noisy especially if it's played on crappy cheap new decks.

Where do you get the impression that new vinyl is in fear to the old stuff and it’s noisy?

That’s not my experience. Occasionally, I’ve got a bad in which there has been noise from perhaps a pressing plant. But other than that, I would say majority of the new vinyl I buy sounds absolutely terrific and easily competitive with any of my older records (the ones in very good condition).

 

[J.M. Noble]

Where do you get the impression that new vinyl is in fear to the old stuff and it’s noisy?

That’s not my experience. Occasionally, I’ve got a bad in which there has been noise from perhaps a pressing plant. But other than that, I would say majority of the new vinyl I buy sounds absolutely terrific and easily competitive with any of my older records (the ones in very good condition).

It might be survivorship bias: the old records we end up with now were in good enough shape for someone to hang onto, by and large.

Anecdotally, I have gotten a disappointing number of bad/noisy new pressings in recent years. I don't recall ever having this problem in the 70s/80s.

 

[Robin L]

A rip (will be removed in a couple of days). Emil Gilels Brahms Piano concerto 1 DG (original source). Recorded straight into my Mac mini 44.1 kHz/24 bits via my Muffsy phono preamp, no noise or click removal.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

I've got the CDs of that, good sounding recording. The "Original Source" will be a remix, so it should sound different.

 

[Thomas_A]

I've got the CDs of that, good sounding recording. The "Original Source" will be a remix, so it should sound different.

Yes, it should sound a bit different. I have the Dvorak/Kubelic as well.

 

[Robin L]

Yes, it should sound a bit different. I have the Dvorak/Kubelic as well.
View attachment 427078

I guess the Kubelik is of the "New World Symphony"?

In any case, spent a little time comparing the rip you made of the "Original Source" LP to Tidal's 24/192 FLAC. I'm hearing a little distortion on the rip. I don't know if it's due to something on the stylus, stylus wear or perhaps some flaw in the pressing. I don't recall hearing this with the rip you made of Mahler's 2nd with Bernstein, which is why I wonder if this is due to some problem with the stylus. But what I'm hearing corresponds to what I've heard with the stylus on my turntables reaching the end of their useful lifespan. I might be projecting, but it does seem to me that there's some additional level of distortion on the rip.

Sidenote: the famous/notorious Bernstein/Glenn Gould live recording of the Brahms concerto #1 was only a minute and change slower than this performance. Quite a bit of controversy over that performance even though the Gilels/Jochum performance is generally regarded as "good as it gets". The Ivan Moravec/Jiří Bělohlávek/Czech Philharmonic performance on Supraphon has a more reasonable tempo, has a lovely performance and sound, is hardly known at all.

 

[Thomas_A]

I guess the Kubelik is of the "New World Symphony"?

In any case, spent a little time comparing the rip you made of the "Original Source" LP to Tidal's 24/192 FLAC. I'm hearing a little distortion on the rip. I don't know if it's due to something on the stylus, stylus wear or perhaps some flaw in the pressing. I don't recall hearing this with the rip you made of Mahler's 2nd with Bernstein, which is why I wonder if this is due to some problem with the stylus. But what I'm hearing corresponds to what I've heard with the stylus on my turntables reaching the end of their useful lifespan. I might be projecting, but it does seem to me that there's some additional level of distortion on the rip.

Sidenote: the famous/notorious Bernstein/Glenn Gould live recording of the Brahms concerto #1 was only a minute and change slower than this performance. Quite a bit of controversy over that performance even though the Gilels/Jochum performance is generally regarded as "good as it gets". The Ivan Moravec/Jiří Bělohlávek/Czech Philharmonic performance on Supraphon has a more reasonable tempo, has a lovely performance and sound, is hardly known at all.

Yes, it is (New World sympthony).

Stylus is rather new, and measures like

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

This was our reference in the 1970s in a recording studio. We had an historic archive of concert performances cut to disc before tape. Our reference arms were the SAE 3000? large diameter disc curved on a large mass large diameter 16"? mains synced platter. At home at the time, I had a V15-IV on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This Brahms is not the first edition but a second one of the "Original source". I do not know what that means yet - is there a new lacquer cut? It is not numbered as the Kubelik record (which is first edition). I think it sounds quite good, quiet and dynamic. Perhaps I should have washed it before recording - they are quite static when they arrive new, and static can sometimes sound as distortion.

Nevertheless, I am quite impressed. I might go for a few more of these; the Pollini/Chopin is one. Need one or two more to order, but I am not sure which ones.

Original Source Vinyl - Deutsche Grammophon

Deutsche Grammophon Shop - the official label store: Vinyl, CD, Special Editions & Merchandise. New releases, classics & more from DG in Berlin.

store.deutschegrammophon.com

 

[Robin L]

Yes, it is (New World sympthony).

Stylus is rather new, and measures like

Introducing the Phono Cartridge Measurement Library

This was our reference in the 1970s in a recording studio. We had an historic archive of concert performances cut to disc before tape. Our reference arms were the SAE 3000? large diameter disc curved on a large mass large diameter 16"? mains synced platter. At home at the time, I had a V15-IV on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

This Brahms is not the first edition but a second one of the "Original source". I do not know what that means yet - is there a new lacquer cut? It is not numbered as the Kubelik record (which is first edition). I think it sounds quite good, quiet and dynamic. Perhaps I should have washed it before recording - they are quite static when they arrive new, and static can sometimes sound as distortion.

Probably should give the disc an ultrasonic cleaning, if possible. The disc does sound quiet and dynamic, closely resembles the Tidal stream in those regards. But I'm hearing some "grunge". It's possible that it's a minor pressing flaw or something left in the groove that can be washed out. Of course, that's one of the notable differences between digital and analog formats; some think of the digital versions as "too clean", not me.

Nevertheless, I am quite impressed. I might go for a few more of these; the Pollini/Chopin is one. Need one or two more to order, but I am not sure which ones.

Original Source Vinyl - Deutsche Grammophon

Deutsche Grammophon Shop - the official label store: Vinyl, CD, Special Editions & Merchandise. New releases, classics & more from DG in Berlin.

store.deutschegrammophon.com

The Michael Tilson-Thomas/BSO recording of Tchaikovsky's 1st symphony is excellent in all regards.

 

[Groove01]

It might be survivorship bias: the old records we end up with now were in good enough shape for someone to hang onto, by and large.

Anecdotally, I have gotten a disappointing number of bad/noisy new pressings in recent years. I don't recall ever having this problem in the 70s/80s.

Anecdotally, my experience has been somewhat opposite. Most of my (US) pressings from the 80’s are noisy. New, quality pressings are much quieter (on avg).

Granted, mine is a relatively small sample size all things considered.

I find that very slight type of vinyl distortion to add a type of texture to the sound, which to me has a bit more textural presence and solidity. Things pop out just a little bit more from the recording, and a way that I find can remind me a bit more of the real thing. It’s an artifact. But to me, it’s one that has some pleasant consequences.

This is similar to my experience as well. The difference is subtle, but your description is in line with my experience (or maybe how I “feel”) when I listen to vinyl.

An additional benefit of vinyl (to me) is I’m often to lazy to get up a manually skip a track - lol. Forces me to listen to whole “sides” and I’ve reconnected to quite a few tracks that I’d otherwise probably have “skipped”.

 

[MattHooper]

Anecdotally, my experience has been somewhat opposite. Most of my (US) pressings from the 80’s are noisy. New, quality pressings are much quieter (on avg).

Granted, mine is a relatively small sample size all things considered.

This is similar to my experience as well. The difference is subtle, but your description is in line with my experience (or maybe how I “feel”) when I listen to vinyl.

An additional benefit of vinyl (to me) is I’m often to lazy to get up a manually skip a track - lol. Forces me to listen to whole “sides” and I’ve reconnected to quite a few tracks that I’d otherwise probably have “skipped”.

For me, one of the joys of the vinyl renaissance is being able to buy brand new squeaky, clean vinyl. The vast majority of new vinyl I buy sounds really clean.

I’ve absolutely had a few that came with dirt or noise baked in and that sucked. But at least in my purchasing, that’s been more on the rare side.

 

[Dimitri]

Why are direct drive turntables considered quieter than belt-drive turntables? I've seen several comments posted recently where people claim that switching to direct drive cut the noise for them, but I don't understand the engineering reason for this.

I believe it's a collection of "design choices".
There is more "engineering" going into direct-drive turntables than belt-driven models.
Have you seen what passes as a belt-driven table nowdays ?
Unpublished specs, and when published, shamelesly worse than what was available 30-40 years. Progress !

 

[Groove01]

For me, one of the joys of the vinyl renaissance is being able to buy brand new squeaky, clean vinyl. The vast majority of new vinyl I buy sounds really clean.

I’ve absolutely had a few that came with dirt or noise baked in and that sucked. But at least in my purchasing, that’s been more on the rare side.

I agree! I’ve also enjoyed some of the remastered 180g pressings. The remastered Zeppelin catalog is quite good. Jethro Tull as well. Much better than my 80’s pressings which are quite noisy.