Just as an example, consider a concert grand piano. The information I have at hand indicates that there are musical notes at the following frequencies below 40Hz: 27.5Hz, 29.1Hz, 30.9Hz, 32.7Hz, 34.6Hz, 36.7Hz, and 38.9Hz. Can we assume that concert pianists use the entire available range of notes when called upon to do so?Question for you: how much musical information do you think there is under 40-45hz? There is not much.
High fidelity is the real sound level.
Bandwidth is only one of many measures of fidelity. Concentration on only one aspect misses the point.Hey folks, just curious about opinions on this.
Based off other discussions about the pursuit of High Fidelity - in this case interpreted as reproducing the encoded source signal as accurately as possible - we will come to possibly ambiguous areas. E.g. you could have a tower speaker that plays from 20Hz to 20k, but with some deviations from neutral in the frequency response here or there. On the other hand you could have a stand mounted speaker that measures beautifully neutral through it's frequency range, but if it only goes down to, say, 45 or 40 Hz, it isn't capable of producing content that is on a lot of recordings. It's "distortion by omission." So which owner could lay more claim to getting closer to "high fidelity" than the other? The owner of the speaker that can reproduce the full spectrum of sound, though with some deviation, or the owner of the stand mounted speaker that is neutral but which omits plenty of source detail in it's own way?
The obvious answer to the High Fidelity question would be "A full range system (and if you have a stand mount speaker, employ subs) that has been treated/DSP'd to play the full sound spectrum accurately." Hence you have plenty of people owning subs. Though in the last poll there were still 30% of ASR respondents who didn't use subs (and likely among those, people who aren't using truly full range speakers).
Also, in a forum devoted to high fidelity, we see Amirm giving "recommendations" to plenty of stand mounted speakers that omit the lower bass frequencies.
So...I'm looking for your various opinions. For "stand mounted speaker/monitor, think of those limited in bass frequency response, unaccompanied by a subwoofer. One could also include any speaker that doesn't go down to 20Hz, but I'm using stand mount/monitors as an easy example:
Does it make sense to consider a stand mounted speaker a reasonable purchase for someone who has the goal of "High Fidelity?" Even if it measures picture perfect within it's frequency range?
Just as an example, consider a concert grand piano. The information I have at hand indicates that there are musical notes at the following frequencies below 40Hz: 27.5Hz, 29.1Hz, 30.9Hz, 32.7Hz, 34.6Hz, 36.7Hz, and 38.9Hz. Can we assume that concert pianists use the entire available range of notes when called upon to do so?
Does it make sense to consider a stand mounted speaker a reasonable purchase for someone who has the goal of "High Fidelity?" Even if it measures picture perfect within it's frequency range?
Even 40Hz is hard to reach with significant levels. 40Hz versus 20Hz is only 1/4 of a necessary excursion from the cone. 20Hz is quite impossible to do for floorstanders of civilized size.... they are more "high fidelity" than most towers, especially those that make tons of compromises to reach 20 Hz.
System designer needs to have "high fidelity" of resulting sound field at main listening place and LF extension sometimes is not a main metric of fidelity due to personal preferences of listener.Does it make sense to consider a stand mounted speaker a reasonable purchase for someone who has the goal of "High Fidelity?" Even if it measures picture perfect within it's frequency range?
The high fidelity is Inseparable from the physical sensation of sound. Listen to Messiaen's turangalila symphony 1 meter from the conductor or a pianist tapping an angry cluster..."Stand mounts" is a generalization for speakers ranging from 100 bucks to infinity. I never read hifi as "able to reproduce all wavelenghts" so a great stand mounted speaker not emitting 30hz bass can well be "hifi" to me. My stand mounts are rated down to around 40hz and I dont feel like I´m missing any bass signal.
Your definition of hifi is "Messiaen's turangalila symphony 1 meter from the conductor"? Ok then.The high fidelity is Inseparable from the physical sensation of sound. Listen to Messiaen's turangalila symphony 1 meter from the conductor or a pianist tapping an angry cluster...
My 10" are far from the high fidelity. The recordings also.
That makes sense as an overarching requirement. Then, I suppose, it would depend on what sound level is the real sound level. The at-a-rock-concert sound level might be somewhat higher than the recording-mixdown sound level. Hence, the latter might be easier to achieve on a regular basis.High fidelity is the real sound level.
That's interesting, and it makes sense. After all, the strings in a piano are hardly efficient radiators at low frequencies.My understanding is that on a concert grand piano the fundamentals of those very low notes are so low in energy that they are effectively inaudible, and likewise even the first overtone for the very lowest of them. The ear infers the fundamental (and the pitch) from the spacing of the overtone pattern. My understanding is that the lowest frequency of audible significance for a typical concert grand piano is the 61.8-Hz first overtone of low-B (30.9 Hz on your list). This was my conclusion after researching "where the goal posts are" for a prosound speaker specifically intended for electric piano.
Not that I'm against reproducing frequencies below 40 Hz; I'm a subwoofer manufacturer.
Exactly, almost no loudspeakers would be able to reproduce the level and dynamics of several music genres, thus it is the work of the mixing and mastering engineer to modify them to make them "living room compatible" and this is the reference which a good audio system should be able to mirror.That makes sense as an overarching requirement. Then, I suppose, it would depend on what sound level is the real sound level. The at-a-rock-concert sound level might be somewhat higher than the recording-mixdown sound level. Hence, the latter might be easier to achieve on a regular basis.
Subwoofers are of great benefit. Having loudspeaker systems that are able to reproduce frequencies below 40Hz is certainly very worthwhile, as there's plenty of music that delves into that sub-40Hz region. Ignoring things like explosions, there are also many movies that utilise low-frequency sounds carefully blended into their soundtracks.Not that I'm against reproducing frequencies below 40 Hz; I'm a subwoofer manufacturer.