Can A Stand Mounted Speaker Be Considered "High Fidelity?"

[MakeMineVinyl]

Technically, yes, a speaker which doesn't cover the entire audio range is introducing a 'distortion' to what (might) be the lowest frequencies on the recording. I wouldn't say however that a speaker which falls into this category isn't 'high fidelity'.

I would say that people should purchase the largest speaker they can within the constraints of their rooms and their budget in order to reduce the omission of the lowest frequencies. Or embrace the reality that a 'full range' speaker system should include subwoofers from the get-go.

 

[FrantzM]

Neumann's quoted spec is F3 of 26hz and F6 of 24.

Wow!
O.T.
This KH420 requires an ASR review..
Neumann quotes a max SPL of 122dB at 1 meter...!!!

 

[thewas]

It depends also on listening distance, room acoustics, placement, listened SPL and music content if the loudspeakers can reproduce the biggest part of its frequency spectrum.

For example for my desktop system I don't need a sub because thanks to room gain and close to the front wall placement I get linear 35 Hz - 20 kHz at the listening position at a for me acceptable SPL with my compact 5" loudspeakers with not too much EQ:

If someone listens only to some chorus music in nearfield not too loud even an small and old LS3/5a which starts dropping response below already 100 Hz can be "high fidelity" to the input recording material.

 

[Spocko]

Hey folks, just curious about opinions on this.

Based off other discussions about the pursuit of High Fidelity - in this case interpreted as reproducing the encoded source signal as accurately as possible - we will come to possibly ambiguous areas. E.g. you could have a tower speaker that plays from 20Hz to 20k, but with some deviations from neutral in the frequency response here or there. On the other hand you could have a stand mounted speaker that measures beautifully neutral through it's frequency range, but if it only goes down to, say, 45 or 40 Hz, it isn't capable of producing content that is on a lot of recordings. It's "distortion by omission." So which owner could lay more claim to getting closer to "high fidelity" than the other? The owner of the speaker that can reproduce the full spectrum of sound, though with some deviation, or the owner of the stand mounted speaker that is neutral but which omits plenty of source detail in it's own way?

The obvious answer to the High Fidelity question would be "A full range system (and if you have a stand mount speaker, employ subs) that has been treated/DSP'd to play the full sound spectrum accurately." Hence you have plenty of people owning subs. Though in the last poll there were still 30% of ASR respondents who didn't use subs (and likely among those, people who aren't using truly full range speakers).

Also, in a forum devoted to high fidelity, we see Amirm giving "recommendations" to plenty of stand mounted speakers that omit the lower bass frequencies.

So...I'm looking for your various opinions. For "stand mounted speaker/monitor, think of those limited in bass frequency response, unaccompanied by a subwoofer. One could also include any speaker that doesn't go down to 20Hz, but I'm using stand mount/monitors as an easy example:

Does it make sense to consider a stand mounted speaker a reasonable purchase for someone who has the goal of "High Fidelity?" Even if it measures picture perfect within it's frequency range?

Definitely content specific. For movie content, bass effects below 40 Hz is essential. Imagine watching Jurassic Park without a subwoofer! It's not just reproducing source material accurately but rather delivering the intended dramatic effect of the director! For a movie, I'm ok with a screwy frequency curve that's inaccurate (like Klipsch) but still preserves the entire bandwidth necessary to deliver the dramatic effect required by the movie. Similarly, dub music is all about low frequency impact, so it doesn't matter if things aren't so accurate above 200Hz as long as everything below 50Hz is present.

 

[Spocko]

I'm interested in the coherence of some of the thinking about fidelity. A number of folks have expressed they have the goal not of "sounds good to me" but of High Fidelity, in terms of accurate reproduction of the signal - whatever the signal sounds like, is what it sounds like.

Dr. Toole addresses this and describes it as part of the "circle of confusion" because what the music producer and mastering team heard through their room/speaker (or hopes you will hear) will have very little to do with what you hear because you have no way of reproducing what they heard. So even "accurate reproduction of signal" could mean accurately reproducing a signal that was designed to be heard through Airpods or 70's era AM radio.

Worse still, music mastered for vinyl is very different than the same music mastered for digital so if not properly remastered for digital playback, will sound terrible and you end up blaming your system for nothing!

Exploring this process is an exercise in futility because "accurate reproduction of the signal" is not really what you're after - you want accurate reproduction of what the mastering team hopes you will hear.

 

[Duke]

If I was limited to stand-mount speakers, I'd start with a big stand.

Seriously, imo Grimm and Dutch & Dutch and Kii have pushed the bar pretty high for stand-mount speakers. I'd call them "high fidelity", even if I don't have a precise definition of the term.

(For home audio my priority would be the creation of a convincing illusion, rather than the maximizing of objective accuracy, in the event that tradeoffs must be made between the two.)

 

[Pearljam5000]

Wow!
O.T.
This KH420 requires an ASR review..
Neumann quotes a max SPL of 122dB at 1 meter...!!!

A long time ago Amir said he's going to review it, I'm still waiting

 

[MattHooper]

Question for you: how much musical information do you think there is under 40-45hz? There is not much.

Not enough for me to want to keep my subwoofers (I sold them).

Though most here seem to use subwoofers (which I realize can also be about evening room response, though playback of the lower frequencies when they are there are also part of the point, I presume).

 

[MattHooper]

I disagree... A speaker cannot have any bearing to the original event, only to the signal fed to it... That is what "High Fidelity" is.

I think you might have misread what I wrote, because that's just what I said "High Fidelity" means to many on this forum. (It's the usual definition I'm given, here).

Accuracy is defined by numbers, by metrics/numbers that can be verified by Science, in the form of Physics or Psycho-acoustics.

Yup, exactly. That's why I've said the notion of "High Fidelity" presumed by many here is a useful one.
(Even though it's not the only notion of "High Fidelity"...nor necessarily a complete one).

 

[MattHooper]

Exploring this process is an exercise in futility because "accurate reproduction of the signal" is not really what you're after - you want accurate reproduction of what the mastering team hopes you will hear.

Those are often purported to be one and the same. Why care about accurate reproduction of the signal? Because that's what the mastering person wants you to hear. But it seems however we put it, things succumb to the "Circle Of Confusion" in any case.

Nice comments Spocko!

Imagine watching Jurassic Park without a subwoofer!

I don't have to imagine. I'm well aware of how the track sounds with subs, but don't use subs in my home theater and personally don't miss them

 

[MattHooper]

Can petite women can be as nice as tall women?
This post somehow has the same vibe lol

It would indeed...if this were a place in which "beauty" was routinely discussed - and the standard of beauty proposed at least seemed to imply Tall Women were the standard of beauty

 

[dfuller]

Wow!
O.T.
This KH420 requires an ASR review..
Neumann quotes a max SPL of 122dB at 1 meter...!!!

S&R's tests showed it to be accurate!

A long time ago Amir said he's going to review it, I'm still waiting

Big heavy box, requires some help getting onto the NFS.

 

[FrantzM]

It depends also on listening distance, room acoustics, placement, listened SPL and music content if the loudspeakers can reproduce the biggest part of its frequency spectrum.

For example for my desktop system I don't need a sub because thanks to room gain and close to the front wall placement I get linear 35 Hz - 20 kHz at the listening position at a for me acceptable SPL with my compact 5" loudspeakers with not too much EQ:

If someone listens only to some chorus music in nearfield not too loud even an small and old LS3/5a which starts dropping response below already 100 Hz can be "high fidelity" to the input recording material.

Always a matter of perspective and .. distance .. thus perspective ... Same with headphones; but for most in-room situations, Small-Room Acoustics, almost mandate the use of multiple subs for best bass reproduction which tend to account for a lot in ultimate fidelity/accuracy..

 

[FrantzM]

S&R's tests showed it to be accurate!

Big heavy box, requires some help getting onto the NFS.

Damn! Some speaker!

 

[Vintage57]

My kh420 are standmount and it's very low fidelity.

Mine too

 

[Pearljam5000]

$20,000 for the pair
I'm assuming they're "high fidelity"

 

[Wolf]

Hey folks, just curious about opinions on this.

Based off other discussions about the pursuit of High Fidelity - in this case interpreted as reproducing the encoded source signal as accurately as possible - we will come to possibly ambiguous areas. E.g. you could have a tower speaker that plays from 20Hz to 20k, but with some deviations from neutral in the frequency response here or there. On the other hand you could have a stand mounted speaker that measures beautifully neutral through it's frequency range, but if it only goes down to, say, 45 or 40 Hz, it isn't capable of producing content that is on a lot of recordings. It's "distortion by omission." So which owner could lay more claim to getting closer to "high fidelity" than the other? The owner of the speaker that can reproduce the full spectrum of sound, though with some deviation, or the owner of the stand mounted speaker that is neutral but which omits plenty of source detail in it's own way?

The obvious answer to the High Fidelity question would be "A full range system (and if you have a stand mount speaker, employ subs) that has been treated/DSP'd to play the full sound spectrum accurately." Hence you have plenty of people owning subs. Though in the last poll there were still 30% of ASR respondents who didn't use subs (and likely among those, people who aren't using truly full range speakers).

Also, in a forum devoted to high fidelity, we see Amirm giving "recommendations" to plenty of stand mounted speakers that omit the lower bass frequencies.

So...I'm looking for your various opinions. For "stand mounted speaker/monitor, think of those limited in bass frequency response, unaccompanied by a subwoofer. One could also include any speaker that doesn't go down to 20Hz, but I'm using stand mount/monitors as an easy example:

Does it make sense to consider a stand mounted speaker a reasonable purchase for someone who has the goal of "High Fidelity?" Even if it measures picture perfect within it's frequency range?

My 3way stand mounts are 1ft^3 and have an Fb/3/10 of 30/26/19Hz, so yes, i feel they can apply to ultra high fidelity, and are my best work over all.

 

[MattHooper]

My 3way stand mounts are 1ft^3 and have an Fb/3/10 of 30/26/19Hz, so yes, i feel they can apply to ultra high fidelity, and are my best work over all.

Sounds amazing! I'd love to hear them.

In making the thread title I realized there was some ambiguity because of course there are stand mounted speakers that can go full range.
I immediately thought of the Kii Audio Three, for instance. But I referenced stand mounted monitors, with the (hopefully clarifying caveat regarding frequency range) because they are visual distinct from full range floor standing speakers and generally speaking they are known for less bass extension.

 

[dfuller]

Damn! Some speaker!

I'll say - really at this point they're the only move from the KH310s I'd consider making.

 

[thewas]

Always a matter of perspective and .. distance .. thus perspective ... Same with headphones; but for most in-room situations, Small-Room Acoustics, almost mandate the use of multiple subs for best bass reproduction which tend to account for a lot in ultimate fidelity/accuracy..

Depends also on the placement possibilities of the loudspeakers and listener and mostly if the bass should be optimised just for one location or more, for the latter of course multiple subs are a must, for a desktop listening system not always.