Best mid-tier monitors : Genelec 8350A vs Neumann KH310

[Ciobi69]

I was recently looking at Fulcrum’s PA subs… and, boy, apart from the rapid drop in extension that prevents them from going all the way down to 20Hz, they sure get way effing louder than many studio monitor subs — price per dB increase is cheap in comparison.

Sub118 18" Direct-Radiating Subwoofer | Fulcrum Acoustic

Designed to provide extended low frequency support in a wide variety of installations.

www.fulcrum-acoustic.com

I got 2 18 inch that are better than this fulcrum sub actually mine are 95db sensitivy 18 inch, flat from 27hz, add whatever monitor to 2 beast of subs and you will clearly see how good is it

 

[DSJR]

Their model numbers make a lot of sense, first number is the type of monitor, 7xxx for subs, 8xxx for monitors, 1xxx for mains, 9xxx for GLM devices. Second one x0xx is either analog, or x3xx for digital with GLM. Then it's the size, starting with xx1x, up to xx8x. Then it's the type, 8xx0 for conventional 2 way and 8xx1 for coaxial for 8xxx monitors, for subs it's something different. The letter at the end is revision, A, B, C etc.
The cool thing is for example 8040A, 8340A and 8341B are exactly the same size, I think the back half of the chassis is the same, so it's easy to upgrade, accessories like stand mounts are the same, or in wall mounts.

Then as confusing as anything with too many models - sorry My bad obviously, but I maintain it takes some research to work out which one you want with this brand Neumann has for me, a simpler to understand model range

 

[dfuller]

I'm not really familiar with their mains, but wonder what was their reasoning behind this

Good question, not one I've been able to suss out.

 

[RobL]

I'm not really familiar with their mains, but wonder what was their reasoning behind this

 

[holdingpants01]

so "3" in 123x mains mean 5" midrange, and the last number is just product model with no regards to size, still a bit confusing but less so

 

[Sokel]

so "3" in 123x mains mean 5" midrange, and the last number is just product model with no regards to size, still a bit confusing but less so

Except for these mains:

 

[palm]

Got to say I'm seriously intrigued by the Neumann 310. I don't need subterranean bass but also don't want the slightest hint of boom or bass 'softness' (the Harbeths here are dangerously close in that department). The mid dome may well help in dispersion in the lower kHz region too in my particular case, but of course it's untried. I'm sure I'd be pretty happy though with either, but as I still have an instant joy when listening to larger three way active ATC's (which are WAY out of my budget now, even at trade prices), the 310's may well be a serious contender if budget ever allows (how much 'worse' are the K&H ancestors as sometimes I've seen them for a couple of grand?)

One more stupid thing - the KH310's have optional grilles I believe...

I have those K&H O300 - with grilles. Moderate listening levels however (apartment) and those were notoriously even more limited than their successors. I have the companion sub, but late at night, I often bypass it (easily done with the footswitch) and after a decade and a half I’m still impressed by the clean bass, low enough for my kind of music. I am worried a damaged driver would be difficult to repair now, electronics would be ok I guess. I would instantly buy 310 I think, and keep my grilles and K&M stands, if I had to.

 

[Pearljam5000]

I have those K&H O300 - with grilles. Moderate listening levels however (apartment) and those were notoriously even more limited than their successors. I have the companion sub, but late at night, I often bypass it (easily done with the footswitch) and after a decade and a half I’m still impressed by the clean bass, low enough for my kind of music. I am worried a damaged driver would be difficult to repair now, electronics would be ok I guess. I would instantly buy 310 I think, and keep my grilles and K&M stands, if I had to.

Wait for KH310 II

 

[holdingpants01]

I am worried a damaged driver would be difficult to repair now, electronics would be ok I guess. I would instantly buy 310 I think, and keep my grilles and K&M stands, if I had to.

Unfortunately electronics are as hard to repair now as the drivers, Neumann does not service them anymore, there's a lot of SMD elements and finding the schematic is close to impossible. I would buy a single unit just for parts, if possible

 

[palm]

I would be tempted for sure, if dimensions are identical and compatible with those rather expensive accessories, but might also buy used 310s - my O300 are 2nd hand !

Wait for KH310 II

 

[ernestcarl]

I got 2 18 inch that are better than this fulcrum sub actually mine are 95db sensitivy 18 inch, flat from 27hz, add whatever monitor to 2 beast of subs and you will clearly see how good is it

I recall you had some DIYs… are you talking about those or some other manufacturer? I recall Meyer or others, for example, makes subs that go deeper etc. but very expensive. At least for US manufacturers — they don’t specialize making the transducers, but offshore the production to B&C etc — Fulcrum’s are often priced “sensibly”.

 

[palm]

Unfortunately electronics are as hard to repair now as the drivers, Neumann does not service them anymore, there's a lot of SMD elements and finding the schematic is close to impossible. I would buy a single unit just for parts, if possible

Many SMDs on a O300? I saw long time ago pictures (claiming those are cheap drivers and electronics which isn't incorrect). I studied microelectronics but not sure I still have skills and patience to go that path anyway.

 

[holdingpants01]

Many SMDs on a O300? I saw long time ago pictures (claiming those are cheap drivers and electronics which isn't incorrect). I studied microelectronics but not sure I still have skills and patience to go that path anyway.

Yes, I think the board with more SMDs is the digital input variation, but there are some on the amp too. Good news is it's not very complicated, looks pretty easy to work on and not a lot of SMDs.

 

[daftcombo]

Their model numbers make a lot of sense, first number is the type of monitor, 7xxx for subs, 8xxx for monitors, 1xxx for mains, 9xxx for GLM devices. Second one x0xx is either analog, or x3xx for digital with GLM. Then it's the size, starting with xx1x, up to xx8x. Then it's the type, 8xx0 for conventional 2 way and 8xx1 for coaxial for 8xxx monitors, for subs it's something different. The letter at the end is revision, A, B, C etc.
The cool thing is for example 8040A, 8340A and 8341B are exactly the same size, I think the back half of the chassis is the same, so it's easy to upgrade, accessories like stand mounts are the same, or in wall mounts.

Their 1031 is hardly coaxial mains ;-)

 

[holdingpants01]

Their 1031 is hardly coaxial mains ;-)

1031 is not current product, but they still make 1032, this one is deep from the 90s and oddball in almost all other aspects. 1 - monitoring loudspeakers (this one is almost proper), 0 - analogue (riight.. it's a SAM speaker with GLM and digital in), 3 - nope, it's not 5 inch, 2 - ok

 

[Ciobi69]

I recall you had some DIYs… are you talking about those or some other manufacturer? I recall Meyer or others, for example, makes subs that go deeper etc. but very expensive. At least for US manufacturers — they don’t specialize making the transducers, but offshore the production to B&C etc — Fulcrum’s are often priced “sensibly”.

I got two bms18n862 as subs... I love them, the problem with PA SUBS in most of the cases they priorize high sensibility, in home application is sligtjly different

 

[Honken]

All I can say is that I have had the 310s for quite some time now, and my interest in this forum has waned considerably because of that. I am satisfied now. Listening to these make me happy every day I do, I've reached nirvana if you will.

I live in an apartment, and even though the apartments here have good sound isolation from eachother, I can't play super loud even if I wanted to. That said, I don't think my usual listening levels are unusually low or limited by the speakers - but I don't crank the volume to 11 on a regular basis either. I do think that this is their only real audio related limitation however, if you wanna crank things loud these just won't suit your use case. For everyone else though? Yeah these things sound fantastic, and considering some of the other speakers they get compared to, they are downright cheap.

The only thing that I can notice that my dual subs add to the sound is a sensation of authority, getting your gut rattled isn't really something that the 310s do. But the bass that can be heard sounds perfect to me.

As for why I went with them, well, apart from just sounding right there's something about dome mids, analog operation and sealed enclosure speakers that appeal to me on a subjective level. Darn few speakers feature all of these traits. I have since heard the Ones from Genelec and while they sound fantastic as well, I can't really compare them since I didn't demo them at home. The Ones are a fair bit more expensive however, and they don't tick my subjective boxes (which I know full well don't really matter in a well executed speaker).

I do have one complaint though and that is idle power usage, it's been mentioned before in this thread. But it is truly crap, I use them as extra space heaters during the winter since they get so hot at idle. During the summer I power them down using smart plugs.

 

[palm]

There aren’t much compact 3 way speakers indeed, even fewer are sealed and with a dome midrange! Not sure this is why we appreciate them but it certainly works. As said, pretty sure I would get 310s if an O300 dies. Ideally I would compare in my room with KH150s.