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Best mid-tier monitors : Genelec 8350A vs Neumann KH310

Pearljam5000

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They cost pretty much the same
They're both excellent and that's why it's hard to choose!
On the one hand I like Genelec sound more but Neumann is 3-way vs 2-way and I guess is way better than the KH120 that I had so they'd be pretty close.
Which one would you choose and why?
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Vintage57

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I voted for the next model up from Neumann when I decided to improve on the ATC‘s I had at the time. No regrets, amazing full range sound.
I don’t think you can go wrong with eithe, the Neumanns will play louder.
 

stevenswall

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If you're not using it with a subwoofer and one goes notably lower, I'd go with that.

If the Neumann doesn't support DSP, then I'd get the Genelec for sure and a GLM kit for relatively cheap, and then you'll have actually good sounding bass.

Looks like the Neumann would go to 119dB for a pair vs 115dB for a pair of Genelec 8350 monitors.

Wider horizontal dispersion on the Genelec. Wider vertical dispersion on the Neumann.

Bass extension looks similar. The preference score for the Genelec is .1 above the Neumann when used without a sub. The Neumann wins by .1 when used with a sub. Tossup.

If you don't have DSP correction and plan on making a larger Genelec system and want to use GLM, go for that if you want easy room correction.
Not sure how you're using these but the other consideration is if you are mounting. Not sure what capabilities the Neumann has. Genelec has a ton of mounting hardware made for their speakers, but Neumann has side mounts if you needed to raise them up and angle them down at you with a relatively cheap U bracket.
 
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thewas

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One of the few questions where my personal choice would be very easy, namely the KH310 due to being a 3-way and especially having that fantastic 3" mid dome. I generally find the KH310 as one of the most underestimated loudspeakers, a friend of mine who owns them had even later a pair of D&D 8c for few weeks for direct comparison and invited many audiophiles and almost all agreed the differences were rather small and more a matter of taste and not better or worse and definitely not worth spending the high financial difference for a "upgrade".
 

dfuller

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For me, KH310 any day.
 
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Pearljam5000

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One of the few questions where my personal choice would be very easy, namely the KH310 due to being a 3-way and especially having that fantastic 3" mid dome. I generally find the KH310 as one of the most underestimated loudspeakers, a friend of mine who owns them had even later a pair of D&D 8c for few weeks for direct comparison and invited many audiophiles and almost all agreed the differences were rather small and more a matter of taste and not better or worse and definitely not worth spending the high financial difference for a "upgrade".
That's encouraging to hear
The sad thing is I didn't buy them before the price increase :(
 

stevenswall

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Kervel

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I bought the 8350A in white. With the glm kit and remote control you won't need a preamp or dac, so it's saves some money. Volume wise they go very loud--at four meters distance my ears started clipping before the speaker :D
 

echopraxia

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I own the two-way Genelec 8330A’s, the three-way coaxial 8351B’s, and have owned the three-way Neumann KH310’s. Between two-way Genelec’s and thee-way Neumanns, I would choose the latter. The KH310 come pretty close to the overall sound quality and power of the much more expensive 8351B. The coaxial Genelec’s are more flawless in some ways, but their price is almost twice the KH310’s.

I cannot speak directly from experience as I have not heard the 8350A, but if you’re willing to use REW and a miniDSP mic to calibrate Neumann KH310’s properly, I suspect it would be pretty hard for the 8350A’s to compete in terms of THD, IMD, etc. So I would choose the Neumann KH310 if I was in your position.

However, there is one exception: if you plan to listen very “near field”, the horizontal symmetry of the Genelec’s more traditional layout may be an advantage. The KH310’s are best for “mid field” listening, about ~1 meter or more distance to listening position, as it’ll take that much distance for the drivers to all integrate well horizontally.

Other reasons to choose the Genelec 8350 (even if the KH310 may have sonic advantages): Genelec has automatic sleep features, while the KH310 will always keep the class AB amps powered up until you physically power them off or cut the power. This means that the heat sink on the back will be warm to the touch, and the amps will wear out faster than the Genelec over time if you don’t manually (or otherwise) cycle power when not using them. Lastly, if it is too much trouble to calibrate the Neumann’s manually via your own DSP solution, the Genelec is better with the GLM kit since it makes calibration so easy. However, unless you plan to use Genelec smart subwoofers also (which are not that great performance for the price, at least in the US market), you’ll probably be forced to use your own DSP anyway so it probably doesn’t matter as much if you plan to use a third party subwoofer.
 
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dfuller

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What do you prefer about it?
3-way design, sealed cabinet, generally preferred sonic characteristics (gens slope down a bit more w/r/t sound power, I find them to be too "warm"), plus the midrange on the KH310s is stellar. I'm an incorrigible ATC fan and these remind me very favorably of them, but better in some ways.
 

echopraxia

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3-way design, sealed cabinet, generally preferred sonic characteristics (gens slope down a bit more w/r/t sound power, I find them to be too "warm"), plus the midrange on the KH310s is stellar. I'm an incorrigible ATC fan and these remind me very favorably of them, but better in some ways.
I agree about the midrange also. I think the KH310 might actually have slightly better mids than my Genelec 8351B (in some ways), though that’s hard to quantify and in any case they’re close. I must say though, I am VERY tempted to consider Neumann KH420’s as my next speaker purchase over e.g. Revel F328Be’s.
 
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Pearljam5000

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I bought the 8350A in white. With the glm kit and remote control you won't need a preamp or dac, so it's saves some money. Volume wise they go very loud--at four meters distance my ears started clipping before the speaker :D
You don't feel that you need a sub?
 

stevenswall

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You don't feel that you need a sub?

I didn't feel like I needed a sub with an 8240 initially. Then I heard the 8260 and thought I didn't need a sub. Then I bought a 7271. Now I'm thinking another one on the other side of the room.

Diminishing returns, but I think a lot of times decent speakers provide a surprising amount of bass to most users if they aren't looking to feel the jiggly jello feelings a subwoofer can do.

If something audibly plays the bass notes at 3:33 in Why So Serious? and at 2:15 in Jamie XX Reconsider, I figured that was about as low as things would go and I didn't need lower... Didn't realize there was even more to it until I got larger and larger speakers.
 

NeoZs99

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I voted for the next model up from Neumann when I decided to improve on the ATC‘s I had at the time. No regrets, amazing full range sound.
I don’t think you can go wrong with eithe, the Neumanns will play louder.
Like the Sennheiser HD650, this might just be here for years to come which may not be such a bad thing.. if people want dsp, they'd add the kh750
 

Frgirard

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Lastly, if it is too much trouble to calibrate the Neumann’s manually via your own DSP solution,
the speaker is calibrated in the factory. What do you need to degrade the qualities of the neumann.
 

Koeitje

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the speaker is calibrated in the factory. What do you need to degrade the qualities of the neumann.
If I'm not mistaken they are talking about room correction, both Neumann and Genelec are DSP calibrated in the factory already.
 

echopraxia

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the speaker is calibrated in the factory. What do you need to degrade the qualities of the neumann.
As @Koeitje said, I’m talking about calibrating your in-room bass response, which is essential (no matter how perfectly flat your speakers are) for quality bass response.

One advantage of Genelec’s “SAM” smart monitors is the inclusion of DSP electronics onboard each speaker, which means you can program these filters directly to the speaker. It’s a nice convenience, but an expensive one: if you’re willing to do it yourself via a separate DSP box (or for free via free software on your computer), you can get better speakers for the same price (either within Genelec’s lineup, or from Neumann e.g. the KH310).
 

echopraxia

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Don't have the urge just yet, perhaps later. But then there is the wife. Genelec subs are rather ugly looking in the living
I agree, they are pretty ugly. Genelec subs are best IMO in a desktop scale setup, since their durability is way better than any audiophile subs I’ve seen, and the built-in DSP comes in most handy there; the design and sturdy metal grill over the driver makes them a worry-free choice to hide away under your desk, where an accidental kick in the wrong spot will never risk damaging them.

But for larger living room use, there are far better options. Genelec subs are overpriced and underperform in terms of SPL versus many other great options on the market (at least in the US). The Genelec subs are not bad for their intended duty, but for the price and floor space you can do much better from Rythmik or JTR, for example.

And if you do go with a third party subwoofer, then there’s relatively little remaining benefit to the Genelec SAM DSP system, because you’ll have to use your own DSP solution regardless when it comes to room correction for your subwoofer In that case, even if you do go with Genelec, the Genelec 8050B will probably perform the same as the Genelec 8350A, but for a much better price.
 

NeoZs99

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I agree, they are pretty ugly. Genelec subs are best IMO in a desktop scale setup, since their durability is way better than any audiophile subs I’ve seen, and the built-in DSP comes in most handy there; the design and sturdy metal grill over the driver makes them a worry-free choice to hide away under your desk, where an accidental kick in the wrong spot will never risk damaging them.

But for larger living room use, there are far better options. Genelec subs are overpriced and underperform in terms of SPL versus many other great options on the market (at least in the US). The Genelec subs are not bad for their intended duty, but for the price and floor space you can do much better from Rythmik or JTR, for example.

And if you do go with a third party subwoofer, then there’s relatively little remaining benefit to the Genelec SAM DSP system, because you’ll have to use your own DSP solution regardless when it comes to room correction for your subwoofer In that case, even if you do go with Genelec, the Genelec 8050B will probably perform the same as the Genelec 8350A, but for a much better price.
I'm not sure about that..atleast technically, the 8350A's amp is much more powerful
 
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