Agreed, but bad is bad which is the case of the DAC this thread is about.
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Beresford Caiman SEG Review (Stereo DAC)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
'We' don't forget it or even ignore it; although 'we' do favor the 2nd word of this site's name.
Ain't nothin' wrong w/bickerin' over a few dB, now on then!
Some of us may also believe AudioPrecision is this site's Chopping-Block and 'we' are willing to put our trust on our Butcher aka @amirm.
He really does know how to trim the fa
Is “it sounds better to my ears in my system” something that you should try to educate people out off. I guess the difficulty revolves around how much we decide to compare before we buy. Too much and we forget what the first few sounded like anyway to little and we miss opportunities i maybe missed the opportunity to hear the Topping D30 pro which I will rectify unless something clear better that I can afford comes up. Where ASR might come in is to at least give some measurements to provide a bit of the info mix. Measurements if we choose the right ones ( I am not techie no idea) would appear at least to be objective. But to buy just based on ASR reviews based on all the variables that exist - hmmm really not sure that’s a great approach and even to use it to get an idea of the ones just to to audition again not convinced ?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #164
That only makes sense if you know how to audition the sound and just the sound. This is difficult to impossible for most people. So they do it wrong and arrive and wrong conclusions regarding what is, or is not good gear.
Measurements for electronics is extremely good filter to separate the great from the not so great. Once there, you can choose based on style, price, support, availability, etc. My job is to provide recommendations that have very high chance of satisfying you. And do so with reliability.
Amir your site provides a good service. I have only recently discovered it but to make a comment like it only makes sense if you know how to audition the sound worries me a bit as listening is a subjective experience . I come from the group that always auditions in my own system before I buy. I personally hate the bright, forward sound of some modern mid range loudspeakers so tend to avoid them they may not measure well either. . I was once told by a Rega dealer that the Planar 2 sounded so much better than an AREB101 TT as he auditioned both to me and I was not listening properly to the detail etc that the Rega provided . Needless to say I bought the one that sounded better to me the AR. I own the Seg which I brought after a comparison with 2 other dacs over a period of about 3 days. It sounds fine to me with my hybrid valve amps and single drive unit speakers . Other stuff might have measured better and even sounded better. I will def get hold of a Topping D30pro as it’s price comparable and if it sounds better than the Seg will move the Seg on.
Ultimately if it makes a noise, which you like then that’s fine, you have decided against transparent reproduction and that is fine too.
Keith
Keith
Not quite sure how to take that comment lol. You sound like the Rega dealer who ultimately went bust although not just as a result of my lost sale .
Looking at your system you have decided to choose ‘flavour’ ( distortion) rather than transparent reproduction, there is nothing wrong with that you have to listen to it.
Keith
Keith
I'd be very impressed if anyone could reliably tell the difference between the Topping and the Beresford if blind and level-matched.
At best any difference is going to be very small. Why worry about it?
At best any difference is going to be very small. Why worry about it?
Mike, I don't think we should try to educate people out of their preference. But certainly I'm all for making them aware of the difference between them liking a piece of kit vs another and those two items actually measuring audibly different, or not.
Yep that makes perfect sense to me
Well all that would have to happen is a song to change bitrate. Guess what you just heard the difference.
sorry I'm probably being really dense but I don't understand what you mean.
Okay so you're listening to song A 16/44.1, then song B 24/96. You get a click hiss when the songs change.
Ah right I'm with you now.
Ha
My system is a reasonable hybrid /valve based £3250 system no pretensions to high end at all but all bits chosen after listening audition as VFM except the cartridge took a punt on that one and it’s ok. And you are correct I do prefer its sound to some other similar priced ones I have heard from more mainstream marques.
But we are going off piste a bit now . I accept the Beresford did not measure well , that is just a fact accepting the measurement criteria used as being fine I have no understanding to say yeh or nay on that one . And if it was just a duff example they may have a quality control issue to. I also think if it is older technology and may be off the pace is that always a problem? I own Croft valve amps and an Earmax Pro both older valve technologies to? I cannot speak for all Beresford's fans but knowing a few owners I don’t think they are misguided types with blind loyalty to the brand . I don’t personally have that kind of loyalty although tbh have not strayed too far from Croft in the last 20 years and have heard a fair few amps in others systems and some in mine. I would move them on if i heard better ( to my love for distortion ears - sic) . I will audition a Topping D30Pro or another better £250 DAC and if they sound better than the Beresford will happily move it on . Mike
Ha you made me smile at least you sound so much like that Rega dealer all those years ago can’t resist sneaking in a barbed comment. He told me I wasn’t listening properly when I could not hear the Rega was clearly better ( my partner agreed with my assessment to)
My system is a reasonable hybrid /valve based £3250 system no pretensions to high end at all but all bits chosen after listening audition as VFM except the cartridge took a punt on that one and it’s ok. And you are correct I do prefer its sound to some other similar priced ones I have heard from more mainstream marques.
But we are going off piste a bit now . I accept the Beresford did not measure well , that is just a fact accepting the measurement criteria used as being fine I have no understanding to say yeh or nay on that one . And if it was just a duff example they may have a quality control issue to. I also think if it is older technology and may be off the pace is that always a problem? I own Croft valve amps and an Earmax Pro both older valve technologies to? I cannot speak for all Beresford's fans but knowing a few owners I don’t think they are misguided types with blind loyalty to the brand . I don’t personally have that kind of loyalty although tbh have not strayed too far from Croft in the last 20 years and have heard a fair few amps in others systems and some in mine. I would move them on if i heard better ( to my love for distortion ears - sic) . I will audition a Topping D30Pro or another better £250 DAC and if they sound better than the Beresford will happily move it on . Mike
Not OT:
Do you see why?
imo: The most important category for auditioning@home would be speakers.
In the 21st, I'd rather put my trust first-and-foremost on ASR information, instead of trying to find a "local" audio dealer.
Croft Acoustics Phono Integrated integrated amplifier Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements
www.stereophile.com
Which croft amps do you have?
Keith
I have no idea what you are trying to say unless Not OT means to expensive to listen ? But maybe the confusion is I will often go and buy 2nd hand and take my own amps or listen in my own system. If a person does not want me to listen I dont buy I would rather not make mistakes. I rarely buy new from a hi fi dealer though did have a pair of new Fyne Audio speakers from a local dealer on a home loan but did not buy them in the end . It strikes me ASR reviews are one part of the methodology that a person can use to buy equipment. They potentially could cut down a field to audition but with a caveat. Does something measuring well always mean you personally will like the sound it makes. But I understand why ASR do not listen to the equipment as that brings in a degree of subjective assessment of do I like it and what am I partnering it with. I will read ASR reviews on occassion I am sure. And if ASR say it measures well I might indeed go and listen if I am in the market. However if I hear something I like that does not measure so well ( as long as no reliability issues etc) I will still buy it. The Seg was in this catergory brought after a home dem and favourably compared to a couple of others on home trial admitedly a small sample . I will borrow a Topping if I can and do a double blind listen with a friends help and honestly report the results .
Pretty basic ones , upgraded phono stage Micro 25 and upgraded power output Series 7 . So better than phono integrated but not up to the R variants . I have just skim read the reviews doesn’t this help my arguement sounds good for the money measures not so good although I did skim to be fair. I have not seen this review before. I used to own the Series 5 all valveCroft Acoustics Phono Integrated integrated amplifier Measurements
Sidebar 3: Measurements
Which croft amps do you have?
Keith
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