Beresford Caiman SEG Review (Stereo DAC)

[617]

Reminds me of Alan

 

[Palladium]

Anyone keeping track of the DACs killed by the Topping DX3 Pro+?

Feels like a looooong and expanding list.

 

[JabbaLeChat]

Thanks for this input. You have confirmed something I had thought. The 7510 was a $200 dac but at the time it was not bad. Unlike the more expensive 7535 it did not click when the bitrate changed and their was no power thump turning it off and on.

The PCM-1716 was a reasonable specced budget 24/96 DAC chip back in the day though not sure that $200 was a reasonable price for the TC-7510, I paid around $100 buying it direct from Beresford...

 

[JabbaLeChat]

I remember contacting JEC in the early days of PA they wouldn’t sell me the 7510 as Stan had exclusive rights then in the U.K. but any of their other models, the abuse I received from the Beresford faithful..
Keith

I remember the same cult like behaviour down the Beresford rabbit hole over at Wigwam back in the day, never understood it myself...

 

[NiagaraPete]

The PCM-1716 was a reasonable specced budget 24/96 DAC chip back in the day though not sure that $200 was a reasonable price for the TC-7510, I paid around $100 buying it direct from Beresford...

To Canada plus the power supply I’m pretty sure it was close to 200.

 

[JabbaLeChat]

To Canada plus the power supply I’m pretty sure it was close to 200.

Ah ok, didn't realise you couldn't buy it locally, though phonopreamps.com in the US sold it from 2013 onwards for $100 plus $13 shipping to Canada...

 

[58bry]

Per owner's request, I unpacked the unit again trying to measure with its own power supply and Dorado MKIII DC "enhancer." Took a while to figure out how the latter works. You would think that like your phone or myriad of other chargeable devices that leaving it off allows faster charging. Not so. The device needs to be turned on to charge. Even then, it didn't work as documentation stated. When discharged, turning it on seemingly does not. Manual says it lights up red LED. It doesn't. If you leave it on for a while the LED does light up red gradually. Eventually it turns green. When using it though, it discharges in a minute or two and lights up red. Can't figure out if it is because of its loose DC terminal or what.

I powered the unit using its own power supply and was shocked that SINAD had sunk down by some 10 dB to 73 or so! At first I thought this was due to its own power supply being worse than my lab one. So I went back to my Lab supply and it showed 76 dB which was still shy of 82 dB I measured before. Couldn't figure out what was going on until I realized that leaving it on allowed distortion to reduce and SINAD increase regardless of what supply I used! After about 20 or so minutes, it stabilized and produced this performance using its own power supply (similar to lab one):

View attachment 157745

This is 1 to 2 dB better than the review measurements but again, this is due to letting it warm up more. And at any rate, it is not material.

I next routed the power through Dorado. I had to power cycle the DAC based on instruction provided and that caused performance to droop some. So I let it warm up again and got this:

View attachment 157746

I wanted to let it warm up more but I noticed that the LED on Dorado had turned red indicating that it was not getting charged at the same rate it was outputting power. So no opportunity to let it run any longer.

Conclusion
Using different power sources has no impact on performance of this DAC. Re-testing did show thermal instability though with much worse performance when dead cold. FYI I do let audio products warm up a bit before testing and hence the reason I did not see this issue in the original review. As far as I am concerned, this second round of testing shows more problems with this DAC than original review indicated.

We have proven once again that fieldling with power sources, conditioners, etc. is of no value, just as fundamentals of electrical engineering indicates. That is, to the extent the device has its own internal regulators and post filters, messing with the input DC quality is of no value. This assumes Dorado has done something to clean up the DC which is not a given. Likely it has its own switching power supplies and such that could actually add noise, not reduce it.

Well, I purchased a Caiman ii DAC in England about 2016. I cannot remember precise dates. In 2021 I returned it to " Stanley Beresford " for a firmware upgrade and a Dorado PSU enhancer. I reinstalled the boxes into the system and in the last week ( October 22 ) I decided to clean behind the Hifi racks. After a couple of days, I thought that the system was sounding better than ever. Then I realised. I was using the direct Analogue output of my CD player straight into my Quad 33-303 setup. So I did an A-B test using both the digital and Analogue outputs of my Ancient technics CD player I alternated between inputs A and B in the Quad.. The Technics SLP 590 from circa 1990 leaves the Beresford for dead in the water............ So there we go people........

 

[58bry]

Lets close this thread with this may be the worst DAC available. I have one for sale... takers?

To be quite truthful the Analogue output of a 30-year-old Technics SLP 590 has more about it than the Beresford.

 

[Giuanniello]

I bought the SEG with the first iteration of the Dorado and back then I made a test by playing a CD through both the SEG and the analog output of the Sony CD-P X505ES and there was no doubt the Sony plays much better, clearer, more open...

I removed the Dorado off the chain, worthless to add another brick, another cable and another ugly light from the mess of cables and gear stuck there, what can I say, I opened it and found out what is inside, what a waste...

I am looking forward to replace the SEG (with latest firmware) with something with less whistles and bells (and no display or ugly bright LEDs), if anybody is into a Dorado MKI here I am!!!

 

[58bry]

I bought the SEG with the first iteration of the Dorado and back then I made a test by playing a CD through both the SEG and the analog output of the Sony CD-P X505ES and there was no doubt the Sony plays much better, clearer, more open...

I removed the Dorado off the chain, worthless to add another brick, another cable and another ugly light from the mess of cables and gear stuck there, what can I say, I opened it and found out what is inside, what a waste...

I am looking forward to replace the SEG (with latest firmware) with something with less whistles and bells (and no display or ugly bright LEDs), if anybody is into a Dorado MKI here I am!!!

What was in the Dorado ? A large Capacitor and a Zener ??

 

[Giuanniello]

I might have posted a pic in the previous pages, not sure about it but so far I seem to recall some capacitors, batteries and a couple of voltage regulators, the miracle brick...

I guess that Mr Beresford was very good at marketing his gear but when I think of the comparison with my 1991 Sony CD player and the SEG I can't make any other than regret giving credit to the hype around that DAC even tho very flexible with the inputs as two optical, an usb and a coax come very handy.

 

[DSJR]

Ha

Ha you made me smile at least you sound so much like that Rega dealer all those years ago can’t resist sneaking in a barbed comment. He told me I wasn’t listening properly when I could not hear the Rega was clearly better ( my partner agreed with my assessment to)

off topic and such a very late reply and speaking as a retired Rega and AR dealer of old, may I say how sorry I am that your Rega dem was so bad! I actually LIKE the AR EB101 (as it was known in the UK) and I'm sure some of the more modern cartridges available to us now would be fine fitted to the arm on it!

Rega decks run slightly fast (worse when a fancy belt is fitted without their external supply which has speed trimming on it) and if the AR deck doesn't do this, that in itself will tell you. Got to ask, was the Rega demo'd with the lid on or removed? I witnessed a supposedly good dealer demming a current issue Rega 2 with lid fitted and up - the worst possible scenario for these decks - and tapping the expensive foo-rack-shelf it was plonked on caused a terrible feedback thumpy din from the speakers which is significantly reduced simply by taking the lid off when playing. Rega for this dealer is beer budget so maybe they didn't regard it as worth their expertise for a £350 ish sale back then?

Me? I'd have demo'd the Rega as best I could and if you/we preferred the EB101, I'd have let you go away happy that you'd done a decent comparison and preferred your own deck for right and proper reasons. The early 80's AR 'The Turntable' in the UK had sloppy main bearings which really did the 'sound' no favours (I didn't experiment with different lube viscosities though). The later 'Legend' version was superb I remember and a bit of a giant killer when compared to the dealer/mag-reader alternatives back then from Manticore and so on.

Sorry for the above late 'stuff' totally off-topic. I grieve that so many dealers selling potentially good gear are damned ignorant, arrogant as I could be forty five years back but some of them just don't seem to learn or even want to learn, once they get into their 'groove to nowhere' unless their favourite brand marketeers fill them with spiel on important new products (i wonder if the US is similar to some long established dealers here?).

As for dacs these days, I regard most now as a commodity to be bought on facilities and price and yeah, looks if you have the extra money to invest in a well cased example Nice that a SMSL model under a ton can beat so many from the past with ease...