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Benchmark AHB2 and Perlisten R7T impedance question

CleanSound

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I think when they where new on the market, the speaker manufacturers wanted you to hear they new shiny tweeters and lifted the response a bit , and they did not understand directivity either so the increased off axis treble energy just went into the room combined with a jarring directivity discontinuity in the low treble and midrange .

Old dome tweeters in other materials migth have been the opposite and did not project much treble energy of axis .
And speaker designers of the time had yet not learned to balance such factors ?

And as mentioned a tendency to over cook the treble response due to “details” the sound now have more “micro details” ( aka more treble ).

I think it coincided with the rise of small two way speakers as the norm ?

I think you can blame B&W too all thier speakers sounds like kazoos in the upper range :) ( a slight exaggeration)

And audiophiles did not have room treatment or eq or even simple tone controls ( because that was somehow bad )

And of two bad’s many picks slightly dull over bright
@ 1:28
 

CleanSound

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You reasoned that if one were willing to spend 10k then why not go ahead and spend 20k, and I tell you that you should have continued that line of thinking and doubled it again. You heard the 2 Perlisten models mentioned, and my advice is for you to listen to 40k dollar speakers and see if there is a reason to upgrade.. I am sure there are.
No, that does not make sense. The S7t and R7t are within the same brand and there really aren't any other speakers out there that out performs Perlisten and Revel as measured even at higher price point that is not DSP.
 

Mnyb

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Btw nowadays I assume that the good brands have such control of their design that I don’t second guess thier choice of materials . I would not question perlisten, kef , Revel Genelec or Neumann.

I would question some that seems to use fancy driver materials and have a lot of emphasis on it in their marketing.
I do not believe materials have a “sound” per see it sets the range driver can be used in and also guides implementation , done rigth a tweeter can be in any material that’s suits it purpose kef use some alloy and geometry to get the desired results without the use of diamonds or anything .

Currently most of my speakers have a metal tweeter.

On topic I do envy your fine perlisten speakers enjoy
 

CleanSound

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Btw nowadays I assume that the good brands have such control of their design that I don’t second guess thier choice of materials . I would not question perlisten, kef , Revel Genelec or Neumann.

I would question some that seems to use fancy driver materials and have a lot of emphasis on it in their marketing.
I do not believe materials have a “sound” per see it sets the range driver can be used in and also guides implementation , done rigth a tweeter can be in any material that’s suits it purpose kef use some alloy and geometry to get the desired results without the use of diamonds or anything .

Currently most of my speakers have a metal tweeter.
I'm with you 100% here!


On topic I do envy your fine perlisten speakers enjoy
Thanks, it was a very difficult decision to spend that kind of money, but if it's going to be my end game, well. . .I live only once and instead of fancy watches and cars, it's fancy speakers.
 
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I understand and I am the same way. I deplore the idea of an expensive watch. I dislike the idea of luxury cars and designer clothing. I was into most of these things when I was younger but I have a different perspective now that I have seen the conditions in my country change for so many over my life. I dont really have the endgame perspective, personally. I want to get some Revel speakers and Ascend has a very impressive tower I am interested in getting, but it is kinda new so it may take a little bit to find a really good used pair. I try to get very minty used pairs that I can flip back out with no real loss to get upset over. I bet if my wife sees me sell the R7T for what I bought them for she wouldnt care if I bought a much more expensive but below market pair. I am glad we had this discussion because it made me think of how much fun driving to get speakers and bringing them home can be. All I really have to do is make sure they perform as intended and take care of them until I get tired of them. When Erin reviews a speaker he gets really impressed. He's very purpose oriented in how he subjectively thinks it performs and then he of course does the measurements for the objective analysis, and he is all about checking out different speakers. I am too. Its FUN! When did James Larson/Audioholics get a Klippel? I saw a video where they discussed how amazingly impressive they were and referenced it as a "robot arm" clearly indicating they didnt have one. Aren't the Audioholic sub reviews all done with outdoor measurements?
 
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CleanSound

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I understand and I am the same way. I deplore the idea of an expensive watch. I dislike the idea of luxury cars and designer clothing. I was into most of these things when I was younger but I have a different perspective now that I have seen the conditions in my country change for so many over my life. I dont really have the endgame perspective, personally. I want to get some Revel speakers and Ascend has a very impressive tower I am interested in getting, but it is kinda new so it may take a little bit to find a really good used pair. I try to get very minty used pairs that I can flip back out with no real loss to get upset over. I bet if my wife sees me sell the R7T for what I bought them for she wouldnt care if I bought a much more expensive but below market pair. I am glad we had this discussion because it made me think of how much fun driving to get speakers and bringing them home can be. All I really have to do is make sure they perform as intended and take care of them until I get tired of them. When Erin reviews a speaker he gets really impressed. He's very purpose oriented in how he subjectively thinks it performs and then he of course does the measurements for the objective analysis, and he is all about checking out different speakers. I am too. Its FUN! When did James Larson/Audioholics get a Klippel? I saw a video where they discussed how amazingly impressive they were and referenced it as a "robot arm" clearly indicating they didnt have one. Aren't the Audioholic sub reviews all done with outdoor measurements?
James Larson does outdoor semi anechoic measurements. That is what Erin used to do before he financed his Klippel. But. . .to do outdoor measurements, it's REALLY hard and time consuming; and I don't trust just anyone doing it without a track record. James Larson has a very reputable track record and his measurements are corroborate time and time again.

This Ron guy. . .eh, let's just say his buddy, Danny Richie does "measurements" too.
 

CleanSound

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More OT i do like this AXIOM guy , watched several videos ...
So Andrew Welker is Ian Colquhoun's protege. Ian is Dr. Toole's associate during Dr. Toole's NRC days.

Axiom follows Dr. Toole's NRC philosophy. So I trust the information from Andrew, Ian and Axiom audio.
 
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I'm with you 100% here!



Thanks, it was a very difficult decision to spend that kind of money, but if it's going to be my end game, well. . .I live only once and instead of fancy watches and cars, it's fancy speakers.
I thought about this idea more and wanted to tell you an idea I had. If you have any loved ones you know you are going to leave behind you can invest in an insured life insurance policy that accrues interest that you can always borrow against with little to no interest. One could use this as a personal bank to finance toy exploring with cars, audio equipment, and other hobbies. One could borrow from the policy and buy all sorts of things then sell for very little loss, all while growing money. Its an easy way to create a lot of value over time for a son or daughter while also experiencing a ton of fun stuff for very low investment.
 

CleanSound

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I thought about this idea more and wanted to tell you an idea I had. If you have any loved ones you know you are going to leave behind you can invest in an insured life insurance policy that accrues interest that you can always borrow against with little to no interest. One could use this as a personal bank to finance toy exploring with cars, audio equipment, and other hobbies. One could borrow from the policy and buy all sorts of things then sell for very little loss, all while growing money. Its an easy way to create a lot of value over time for a son or daughter while also experiencing a ton of fun stuff for very low investment.
Whole life insurance is not a good investment, this is the advice I got from multiple financial advisors. And that's if you can sell at a very small loss. Especially with HiFi, it's hard.
 
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James Larson does outdoor semi anechoic measurements. That is what Erin used to do before he financed his Klippel. But. . .to do outdoor measurements, it's REALLY hard and time consuming; and I don't trust just anyone doing it without a track record. James Larson has a very reputable track record and his measurements are corroborate time and time again.

This Ron guy. . .eh, let's just say his buddy, Danny Richie does "measurements" too.
James Larson does outdoor semi anechoic measurements. That is what Erin used to do before he financed his Klippel. But. . .to do outdoor measurements, it's REALLY hard and time consuming; and I don't trust just anyone doing it without a track record. James Larson has a very reputable track record and his measurements are corroborate time and time again.

This Ron guy. . .eh, let's just say his buddy, Danny Richie does "measurements" too.
Okay lets simply reference Perlisten's data sheets since you dont want to give any liberties to the lesser thans. Do you see the same response curve for both of these speakers? I do not. One clearly has a rise in higher frequencies. I have an aversion to that. I have not heard both, and I didnt want to do so in a store and buy the more expensive pair cause I liked it more. I may very well the S7T and would love to, but the used pair I saw was too far to get to. at 11700 I almost considered a very cross country trek. Ive been sitting here this evening discussing this idea of having very fun road trips more often for nice speakers with my wife. I am very glad we discussed this because now I feel I can reframe the material aspects of buying and owing things so much. I am so glad I realize now how silly it is to think of these things as "mine." when I could think of the best econopmical way of experiencing them at low cost.

https://www.perlistenaudio.com/press_downloads/s7t/#data

 
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Whole life insurance is not a good investment, this is the advice I got from multiple financial advisors. And that's if you can sell at a very small loss. Especially with HiFi, it's hard.
Maybe so. Im spitballing. I know someone that put 100k into a plan and 10 or so years later its worth 330k. Im sure every one of those financial advisors would love to get the better commission for a much riskier investment. You can take those as well. Its not just hifi. You can put this to property and auto etc. Of course its not the best return on investment at first glance. You can how ever take out the loan and place the funds in the bank, churn it for travel points or cash back, flip out tons of toys, interest free, and earn a better return than a lot of bond options and leave a loved one with an extra lump.

Bet ya 500 bucks the surrender fees on a 100k policy is less than the amount youd lose if ya sold the S7T's used tomorrow.
 
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CleanSound

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Okay lets simply reference Perlisten's data sheets since you dont want to give any liberties to the lesser thans. Do you see the same response curve for both of these speakers? I do not. One clearly has a rise in higher frequencies. I have an aversion to that. I have not heard both, and I didnt want to do so in a store and buy the more expensive pair cause I liked it more. I may very well the S7T and would love to, but the used pair I saw was too far to get to. at 11700 I almost considered a very cross country trek. Ive been sitting here this evening discussing this idea of having very fun road trips more often for nice speakers with my wife. I am very glad we discussed this because now I feel I can reframe the material aspects of buying and owing things so much. I am so glad I realize now how silly it is to think of these things as "mine." when I could think of the best econopmical way of experiencing them at low cost.

https://www.perlistenaudio.com/press_downloads/s7t/#data


S7t
S7t.jpg


R7t
R7t.jpg

From spinorama
IMG_20230815_042527.jpg



Very close to me, if anything, the S7t seems a bit flatter.
 

CleanSound

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Maybe so. Im spitballing. I know someone that put 100k into a plan and 10 or so years later its worth 330k. Im sure every one of those financial advisors would love to get the better commission for a much riskier investment. You can take those as well. Its not just hifi. You can put this to property and auto etc. Of course its not the best return on investment at first glance. You can how ever take out the loan and place the funds in the bank, churn it for travel points or cash back, flip out tons of toys, interest free, and earn a better return than a lot of bond options and leave a loved one with an extra lump.

Bet ya 500 bucks the surrender fees on a 100k policy is less than the amount youd lose if ya sold the S7T's used tomorrow.
We should leave investment strategy discussion outside of a HiFi forum. :)
 
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are you even looking at the frequencies upward of around 7k? Open your eyes. Also, why do you think its hard to get back out of what you put into hifi. I never lose money. Do you always buy new? If so, this might explain why you have such an opinion. I can go on for days about very little investments into very nice gear that has translated very nicely into profit. Just because your strategy is a loser doesnt mean everyone else does the same thing, genius.
 

CleanSound

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are you even looking at the frequencies upward of around 7k? Open your eyes. Also, why do you think its hard to get what you get back out of what you put into hifi. I never lose money. Do you always buy new? If so, this might explain why you have such an opinion. I can go on for days about very little investments into very nice gear that has translated very nicely into profit. Just because your strategy is a loser doesnt mean everyone else does the same thing, genius.
If you want to convince yourself that the R7t is better than the S7t (for yourself), go right ahead. The graph is right there, like I said, they are about as flat as you can get without DSP. But the S7t is clearly flatter where as the R begins to slant downwards by a smidgen.

If you want to talk about flipping gears for "nice" profit, someone else is better suited for this conversation. Unless you are a dealer doing a large volume, then "nice profit" is in the eye of the beholder.
 
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If you want to convince yourself that the R7t is better than the S7t (for yourself), go right ahead.
Cool strawman. Take a look at the frequency response about around 7k one more time and try to pretend that they are the exact same one more time.
 
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I will enjoy them as long as I want and when I sell them I wont be missing a whole lot. I hope you can say the same but as per this conversation I dont think you will get as good of a return as I will with my investment. The last S7T used pair I saw was at a staggering 11,700 on audiomart. I may have it all wrong but if they cost 20,000 then the taxes are another couple grand. So around 22,000. I got the R7T for 6500 and if I sell them today for the extra low price of 6,000 I will have only lost 500 bucks. Bet ya 14,000 usd I can get 6,000 a year later. When are you going to be able to sell your S7T's for 21,000 or 20,000? NEVER. If that does not mean anything to you then fine. I happen to have a lot of fun going through audio gear. Some people would actually be amazed at the sort of deals I have gotten. Turn your nose up to what I am telling you all ya want ya snob. Fact is, its all material end game or not. Youre making stupid buys on the premise its the last one. Besta luck!
 
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