Avantone CLA-10 (Yamaha NS-10M Clone) Review

[amirm]

For example this are in room measurement of Revel 105 speakers (which it tonally rather fine speakers as measured) from yesterday.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/spl_20-20k-jpg.304417/

Careful in looking at graphs like that for frequencies above transition. You need to filter the response to the ERB of the ear and at any rate, worry about how two ears hear, not one single mic. No way do you "hear" what you see there.

 

[amirm]

However based on the fact how placement and room are more determining than speakers itself this whole discussion is hollow.

That's not true at all. Speaker dominates the response above transition, not the room. See this measurement from Harman and how the response above transition hardly changes as you go from one seat to another:

CLA-10's overboosted response would most definitely dominate in-room response in the region.

 

[ZolaIII]

Careful in looking at graphs like that for frequencies above transition. You need to filter the response to the ERB of the ear and at any rate, worry about how two ears hear, not one single mic. No way do you "hear" what you see there.

Yes I told him to position mic better (45° vertical angle) as I couldn't believe what I see, so far he didn't.
Edit: you know I whose thinking about wall (including ceiling and floor) refractions. To make things worse it's a big room with deacent space both behind listening spot and speakers which usually helps with those and to lousen up impact of usual moods).
Hopefully we will figure out what's happening there.

 

[amirm]

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Thanks. I don't know why they are not listing his subs. You can see him talk about them here:

 

[Robbo99999]

let me show you guys how many screaming resonances the following curve reveals in James Brown - The Payback

View attachment 304759


it's not that you can't hear them without it, but it's much more in your face: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1raAT3Czx46L2t9CD8kfLIfTi0kEWkXy-/view?usp=sharing

That is what I was envisioning. That's the kind of parametric filters you'd save as a profile that you would apply to good Anechoic Flat speakers if you wanted to analyse certain portions of the frequency response. You could have a few different saved profiles that you would flip between to emphasise different areas, just as you've done there.

 

[Travis]

Who mixed, mastered, composed or produced the following songs just in the last 3 years, and what monitors does he use?

Mike Dean, Texas boy, a very, very serious player.

Amphion man. Also Tannoys I believe. I thought I read that for a time he was using KRK for NFM. He obviously has NS-10x in his home studio/keys room.

 

[Travis]

Thanks. I don't know why they are not listing his subs. You can see him talk about them here:

That's his house. As you suggest, at least I think you do, he has obviously fixed the low end shortcomings (those are not subs, those are Tannoy 215s) We don't know what, if any, monitor eq he is running.

He is a Atmos Dolby Premier Certified Studio, they have strict standards on the equipment (like they always have had, including cinema requirements). He isn't doing anything on NS-10s for that I don't believe.

 

[Ported]

I guess now we need to question all the microphones we may have used that had far from perfect frequency response. Why would you use any of those when you strive for one microphone with near perfect response?
How they ever were adopted for use in so many recording studios heaven knows?

Maybe it's because they were are useful tools maybe? Just sayin.

 

[dasdoing]

That is what I was envisioning. That's the kind of parametric filters you'd save as a profile that you would apply to good Anechoic Flat speakers if you wanted to analyse certain portions of the frequency response. You could have a few different saved profiles that you would flip between to emphasise different areas, just as you've done there.

yes, easy enough to do nowadays. though probably not that particular curve. I would say a steep HP and LP....moving HP up until no bass anymore, LP down until no treble

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

I guess now we need to question all the microphones we may have used that had far from perfect frequency response. Why would you use any of those when you strive for one microphone with near perfect response?
How they ever were adopted for use in so many recording studios heaven knows?

Maybe it's because they were are useful tools maybe? Just sayin.

Not even close to comparable.

 

[Blumlein 88]

let me show you guys how many screaming resonances the following curve reveals in James Brown - The Payback

View attachment 304759


it's not that you can't hear them without it, but it's much more in your face: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1raAT3Czx46L2t9CD8kfLIfTi0kEWkXy-/view?usp=sharing

This makes much more sense than using a broken speaker design that might sort of do the same thing along with some other nasty things. Using filters to check out different aspects of mixes seems fine.

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

That's his house. As you suggest, at least I think you do, he has obviously fixed the low end shortcomings (those are not subs, those are Tannoy 215s) We don't know what, if any, monitor eq he is running.

He is a Atmos Dolby Premier Certified Studio, they have strict standards on the equipment (like they always have had, including cinema requirements). He isn't doing anything on NS-10s for that I don't believe.

View attachment 304765

Those look like subs to me, not Tannoy speaker. Standard reflex bin, big port in the middle. The baskets of the drivers don't match Tannoy 215.

 

[EDMoser]

The argument that a speaker/monitor is not a tool that a sound ENGINEER would use to perform a TASK to complete a JOB is just a silly and embarrassing one IMO.

I'm willing to bet most engineers would say nearly all the equipment they use are tools necessary to performing the jobs they are paid to do.

 

[Travis]

I guess now we need to question all the microphones we may have used that had far from perfect frequency response. Why would you use any of those when you strive for one microphone with near perfect response?
How they ever were adopted for use in so many recording studios heaven knows?

Maybe it's because they were are useful tools maybe? Just sayin.

Microphones all have a different FR, and different eq, some much better than other things. Most importantly, they have vastly different transient response (decay time), just like transducers/speaker systems do. Ribbons, on average, are much longer than condensers for example. With certain vocals, a ribbon can be a tremendous improvement.

Transient response (or whatever the technical term for what is depicted in step response and spectral decay) is critically important for sound engineers, recording and mix.

I am sure you are aware of all of this since your comment, but I'm hoping things like this can be pointed out so everyone becomes aware that the key attributes of speakers are not always the same for professional studio monitors and for home listening.

Recording engineers, at least the ones I have personally seen, or have written or spoken about this specific subject, are always fretting over transient response and distortion.

 

[Travis]

Those look like subs to me, not Tannoy speaker. Standard reflex bin, big port in the middle. The baskets of the drivers don't match Tannoy 215.

Trust me, those are 215s plain as day, they are pretty darn distinctive.

 

[badspeakerdesigner]

Trust me, those are 215s plain as day, they are pretty darn distinctive.

Distinctive? They look like every basic 2x15 pa sub. I'm supposed to believe you yet nothing indicates that they are the speakers you claim? This ASR or just trust me bro.com?

 

[Ported]

Microphones all have a different FR, and different eq, some much better than other things. Most importantly, they have vastly different transient response (decay time), just like transducers/speaker systems do. Ribbons, on average, are much longer than condensers for example. With certain vocals, a ribbon can be a tremendous improvement.

Transient response (or whatever the technical term for what is depicted in step response and spectral decay) is critically important for sound engineers, recording and mix.

I am sure you are aware of all of this since your comment, but I'm hoping things like this can be pointed out so everyone becomes aware that the key attributes of speakers are not always the same for professional studio monitors and for home listening.

Recording engineers, at least the ones I have personally seen, or have written or spoken about this specific subject, are always fretting over transient response and distortion.

My tongue was very in cheek .. a wide range of tools to problem solve all aspects of recording are often used .. how perfect their response is is not necessarily the most important issue in the final result.

 

[Travis]

Distinctive? They look like every basic 2x15 pa sub. I'm supposed to believe you yet nothing indicates that they are the speakers you claim? This ASR or just trust me bro.com?

Let me help you then otherwise you will spin in circles. There is this thing called google. enter "Tannoy Monitor System 215". Let me know what you find, bro.

 

[amirm]

I guess now we need to question all the microphones we may have used that had far from perfect frequency response.

Maybe you do if you evaluated their tonality on NS-10. Regardless, it is a bad analogy as it is an input to the system, not a feedback tool to test what we may be hearing as a speaker is. You could use a cup and wire to record if it sounds fine on a proper speaker.....

 

[amirm]

Transient response (or whatever the technical term for what is depicted in step response and spectral decay) is critically important for sound engineers, recording and mix.

And it shouldn't be unless you are talking about things like compressors and such. Consumers have no exclusivity in believing all kinds of things in time domain that are not correct or relevant....