Audyssey's Next Generation of Room Correction (MultEQ-X)

[Datec]

I meant no one in the rhetorical sense, in that it's an infinitesimally small market. Certainly there's exponentially higher demand for wholesale AVR upgrades, be it for better room correction, HDMI 2.1, more wattage, or what have you. I agree that the $200 license might make some level of sense specifically for X700 Series owners who plan to keep them until they die, but for the reliable upgrader or those with older models it's incredibly difficult to justify.

As I mentioned, tying the license to a single user and serial number actively discourages that customer from ever buying a new Denon/Marantz (as you're effectively flushing $400 in software licenses down the toilet--$200 wasted on your old unit, and another $200 buying a redundancy for the new unit). Factor in customers who own multiple D&M AVR's (who they should be rewarding for their loyalty, not actively spiting) and you'll eventually multiply that by 2x, 3x, 4x, or more.

I get that they're ostensibly targeting "Pro's" here, but that's a very small market, and the overwhelming majority of projects using Denon/Marantz are just installers dumping a bunch of Klipsch speakers in a partially finished basement. 9 out of 10 of them don't even bother running Audyssey and the 1 who does sets the mic on the floor or the seat of the couch. The people doing fully treated $50,000+ rooms with real measurement based setup are being upsold "boutique" electronics and speakers, not Denon's.

Dennis Erisken has used Denons in his installs. I know that for a fact when I talked with him and his installs are not cheep and perform like nobody's business. It all depends on what is needed for the project and the space requires to get it to perform.

 

[Sal1950]

I agree, it’s odd to me how upset some of these posts are. Yes, Audyssey could have done a better job with pricing, but no one is forcing us to install this for our AVRs to function.

Good post!
You know what's even funnier, over on AVS Forum there's a dedicated thread for the Editor app that's been up since 5-2017 when it was released and is now over 404 pages, 8075 posts long. You wouldn't believe the amount of posts that have been made whining, pissing, and moaning over the $20 they charge for the app. WTF, are you kidding me, $20 more dollars into a system they have thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into already? I couldn't believe it, talk about CHEAP. LOL
I posted more than once IMO that the $20 was probably the best deal I got EVER in Hi Fi .
That was not well received by many.

 

[bo_knows]

Good post!
You know what's even funnier, over on AVS Forum there's a dedicated thread for the Editor app that's been up since 5-2017 when it was released and is now over 404 pages, 8075 posts long. You wouldn't believe the amount of posts that have been made whining, pissing, and moaning over the $20 they charge for the app. WTF, are you kidding me, $20 more dollars into a system they have thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into already? I couldn't believe it, talk about CHEAP. LOL
I posted more than once IMO that the $20 was probably the best deal I got EVER in Hi Fi .
That was not well received by many.

You should tell them, spend the $20 on the app and get up of your knees. Suboowerf crawling is over! LMAO.

 

[Datec]

Good post!
You know what's even funnier, over on AVS Forum there's a dedicated thread for the Editor app that's been up since 5-2017 when it was released and is now over 404 pages, 8075 posts long. You wouldn't believe the amount of posts that have been made whining, pissing, and moaning over the $20 they charge for the app. WTF, are you kidding me, $20 more dollars into a system they have thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into already? I couldn't believe it, talk about CHEAP. LOL
I posted more than once IMO that the $20 was probably the best deal I got EVER in Hi Fi .
That was not well received by many.

Absolutely correct, your post and the one you quoted.

This just got released and upgrades I'm sure are gonna be coming. Instead of sitting on the sidelines throwing garbage and whining about things you have absolutely no 1st hand experience with you can either buy it and find out for yourself or just sit back and quit complaining cause your not gonna pay the $200 anyhow for reasons that are your own.
I paid my $200 so if things don't work, I have the right to piss and moan not you. There is only one way to find out for sure and that's to pay for it.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

No it doesn't - it won't work for the new user.

Well, unless they're happy with the calibration for your old room, and aren't intending to run their own.

(At least this is what I'm assuming when they say per-user. With Audyssey Pro, you have to regenerate keys online from your installer account for one of your licensed AVRs. With that system I suppose the new owner could get in touch with the old owner to ask them to ask Audyssey for a new key whenever necessary. They last a month. This might be tricker though.)

Should be easy if seller cooperates.

 

[beren777]

I'd vote in the poll but my preference isn't there. I'd likely pony up the $200 if it was tied to the buyer and could be used across any of the receivers on the buyer's local LAN. The price isn't objectionable to me, just the licensing terms.

 

[sweetchaos]

I'd vote in the poll but my preference isn't there. I'd likely pony up the $200 if it was tied to the buyer and could be used across any of the receivers on the buyer's local LAN. The price isn't objectionable to me, just the licensing terms.

How about if I add 2 more poll options?
I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.
I'm not an owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.

 

[beren777]

How about if I add 2 more poll options?
I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.
I'm not an owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.

Sounds good, though I reserve the right to secretly buy a license and deny it so that I don't publicly contradict myself on ASR.

 

[Sancus]

Not based against what Dirac charges. $200 for Live to Full, and another $500 for the DLBC bass app.

I think a lot depends on how prices shake out and what models are released. If the TX-RZ70/ VSX-LX705 rumors are true and they're around $2000 w/full DLBC(2 independent sub channels) for ~+$500 that's a really strong competitor. Most people will achieve far better results that way, the manual PEQ option is a lot of work and doesn't offer the phase or crossover optimization benefits of Dirac either.

Denon/Marantz prices have gone up 25% based on MSRP since 2020 and more like 50-100% if you consider there's no such thing as old stock anymore. I paid $960USD for my AVR-X4500H in early 2020...with Sound United increasing prices in January, it's entirely possible the 4700H or successor will land at $2300 or even $2500. Without the app.

That's a huge amount of money to spend considering Audyssey's base capability has not changed in what... 10 years? I have no idea when XT32 was introduced.

 

[sweetchaos]

Done. Added 2 more poll options.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

To be fair it's a $350 9-channel 2018 model that saw contemporaneous Denon's (like the X3500) also measuring poorly--nevermind all the boutique NAD/Anthem models that have also bench tested horribly. The 2021 models may or may not pass the Audio Precision's muster, but barring some aspect that's completely broken, equalization quality will trump dubiously audible bench results many many many times over.

I believe NAD/Anthem left the boutique train station long, long ago.

 

[Haint]

Then cuddle up with your preferred mix and move on.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean, or how it's a relevant response to what seems like valid and well supported criticism.

I agree, it’s odd to me how upset some of these posts are. Yes, Audyssey could have done a better job with pricing, but no one is forcing us to install this for our AVRs to function.

You don’t like Audyssey or D&M AVRs or how this is priced, vote with your wallet and make your next AVR another brand.

For now I’ll stick with the app, and wait to see how this add on tool progresses in features and maybe a better pricing structure.

I'm not sure how you could have drawn any other conclusion from my posts besides that, I'm pretty sure I referenced it in every one.

 

[KMO]

Should be easy if seller cooperates.

Would be with Audyssey Pro, which was designed to work off-line. That actually had a simple license key, so the seller could generate it and the buyer could type it in for a month's use.

This set-up might need the user to be actually logged into whatever account for direct verification.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Would be with Audyssey Pro, which was designed to work off-line. That actually had a simple license key, so the seller could generate it and the buyer could type it in for a month's use.

This set-up might need the user to be actually logged into whatever account for direct verification.

This greed will be turnoff.

 

[Trell]

Sound United posted their video on Youtube 3hrs ago:

It's 1.5hr long.

At 38:00 in the clip they Audyssey guy starts talking about a special cable to adapt the old Pro kit to the AVR, and is inserted between the preamp and the AVR. The cable can be long, up to one km. Price and when available not decided yet, but prototypes have been made and tested.

Can't use an USB mic as it needs to be connected to the mic input on the AVR, but they plan to release individually calibrated mics that are not as expensive as the old Pro kit mic and is more consumer friendly. Price and availability to be decided.

Nothing said in the clip (or I missed it) about using my own audio interface where I can route the mic in to analog out and thus use my own measurement microphone. @Kal Rubinson posted earlier that he asked that question in the session but did not receive an answer.

Currently this appears to be a Windows app with improved UI (non-touch editor of PEQ), some smaller changes, but not that much different than the Android/iOS app available for a tenth of the price and without the new onerous licensing scheme.

It's commendable that an app like this is released at all, but I think I'll wait with upgrading my 2015 model Denon AVR-X4200W that does not support the Android/iOS app nor, of course, the new Windows app. Use of my own measurement mic would make me reconsider, though.

 

[jhaider]

Done. Added 2 more poll options.

I think there should be two more.

-Current owner, regardless of price and licensing the current feature set is not compelling; won’t buy now but open to if it is improved

-Current owner, regardless of price and licensing the lack of a macOS version precludes purchase. Will see where it is when they upgrade to macOS.

Honestly I think the focus on the onerous licensing terms is crowding our discussion of the merits of the product. My quick take is the iOS app adds more value, regardless of price.

 

[Steve Dallas]

At 38:00 in the clip they Audyssey guy starts talking about a special cable to adapt the old Pro kit to the AVR, and is inserted between the preamp and the AVR. The cable can be long, up to one km. Price and when available not decided yet, but prototypes have been made and tested.

Can't use an USB mic as it needs to be connected to the mic input on the AVR, but they plan to release individually calibrated mics that are not as expensive as the old Pro kit mic and is more consumer friendly. Price and availability to be decided.

Nothing said in the clip (or I missed it) about using my own audio interface where I can route the mic in to analog out and thus use my own measurement microphone. @Kal Rubinson posted earlier that he asked that question in the session but did not receive an answer.

Currently this appears to be a Windows app with improved UI (non-touch editor of PEQ), some smaller changes, but not that much different than the Android/iOS app available for a tenth of the price and without the new onerous licensing scheme.

It's commendable that an app like this is released at all, but I think I'll wait with upgrading my 2015 model Denon AVR-X4200W that does not support the Android/iOS app nor, of course, the new Windows app. Use of my own measurement mic would make me reconsider, though.

At one point they mentioned you cannot use an external interface, because volume would be difficult to calibrate, and latency would throw off timing.

 

[Trell]

At one point they mentioned you cannot use an external interface, because volume would be difficult to calibrate, and latency would throw off timing.

Yes, the latency (or timing) was used to eliminate background noise but I must have missed the volume calibration. I just assumed that the end user would have to level match in any case, but that is something to be expected when using your own measurement microphone.

 

[Shanman]

Nice my old trusty AVR- X3300 is covered, but seeing as I got it new for $550, the $199 software is a strong no go.

 

[Puddingbuks]

Is there a mac version on the way?

Will this update make dual sub with different settings possible on a X4500H?