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Audyssey's Next Generation of Room Correction (MultEQ-X)

Are you a current Denon/Marantz AVR Owner and if so what do you think of Audyssey's MultEQ-X?

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable. I've already purchased it.

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable. I’m willing to spend the money once I learn more.

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is too high. Anything lower is better.

  • I'm not a current Denon/Marantz AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable.

  • I'm not a current Denon/Marantz AVR owner. $200 price is too high. Anything lower lower is better.

  • I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.

  • I'm not an owner. $200 price is acceptable, but I don't like the restrictive terms. Wont buy.

  • Other (please explain).


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Are there any rumours when and if they are going to add UMIK-1 support for MultEQ-X?
They aren't, because they have to use the in-AVR tone generation for timing. If you want to use the UMIK-1, exclude your measurements with the Audyssey mic, take measurements with the UMIK-1 in REW, then create inverse filters for import into MultEQ-X.
 
They aren't, because they have to use the in-AVR tone generation for timing. If you want to use the UMIK-1, exclude your measurements with the Audyssey mic, take measurements with the UMIK-1 in REW, then create inverse filters for import into MultEQ-X.
I could be wrong, but I assume if you use that approach, you will invalidate any impulse response correction that Audyssey does, and will have only the frequency response EQ....
 
I could be wrong, but I assume if you use that approach, you will invalidate any impulse response correction that Audyssey does, and will have only the frequency response EQ....
What impulse response correction? The only thing they would do with the impulse response is align them which you can do in REW.. I mean I may be wrong but outside of volume matching and time aligning what else is Audyseey doing other than PEQ?
 
Again time aligning using the impulse response is really easy now with REW and cross correlation.. Also volume matching is pretty easy..

Not that any of that matters because you can always just take one measurement from your MLP and exclude it to get all that done automatically in MultEQ-X
 
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I see the new MultEQ-X 1.8 update has a new option in Filter Settings.

Under the "High Frequency Limit" we have the option to Limit All, Limit Measured and now Limit Smoothed?

I understand the first two, but don't know what the difference between Limit All set to max and Limit Smoothed is - anyone know?

Comparison.jpg
 
I see the new MultEQ-X 1.8 update has a new option in Filter Settings.

Under the "High Frequency Limit" we have the option to Limit All, Limit Measured and now Limit Smoothed?

I understand the first two, but don't know what the difference between Limit All set to max and Limit Smoothed is - anyone know?

View attachment 369646
It adds an additional parameter that you can use to smooth the filter. So up to the right next to the frequency, you can now put a number for how much smoothing you want applied just to the filter. Try putting 20 in that box and you can see what it does.

Not sure why you'd want that in practice, but... there it is.
 
It adds an additional parameter that you can use to smooth the filter. So up to the right next to the frequency, you can now put a number for how much smoothing you want applied just to the filter. Try putting 20 in that box and you can see what it does.

Not sure why you'd want that in practice, but... there it is.

Ah, okay. I suspected it was something like that, but missed that an additional parameter is opened up - thanks!

EDIT: Playing with it now - it's a pretty cool feature. What would be even more useful if you could set an additional high frequency limit for the smoothed filter,
 
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I thought that existed but I guess this is smoothness related to the filter and not the display of the frequency response.

I really like MQX, not only because it “just works” but because of the control. As opposed to Dirac where there is very little control.
 
I thought that existed but I guess this is smoothness related to the filter and not the display of the frequency response.

Yea, it's like using the "Limit Measured" option, except that the correction extending up from the high frequency cut-off point maintains Audyssey's EQ, but smoothed to preference:

Center.jpg


I really like MQX, not only because it “just works” but because of the control. As opposed to Dirac where there is very little control.

I also enjoy how intuitively hands on it is.
 
In version 1.8 they've also added filter smoothing options under "Settings" - Spline and Fractional Octave Smoothing. Guessing that spline is the default (and what is used in previous versions). Can anyone break down (in layman's terms) the differences/advantages/disadvantages between the two?
 

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In version 1.8 they've also added filter smoothing options under "Settings" - Spline and Fractional Octave Smoothing. Guessing that spline is the default (and what is used in previous versions). Can anyone break down (in layman's terms) the differences/advantages/disadvantages between the two?
I think fractional makes the changes more subtle like correcting for the smooth result vs every peak and dip. Whereas, spine smoothing is how it has traditionally worked.

Here’s what I got from ChatGPT for what it’s worth. My summary above (which is a guess) is based on the AI’s response:
——————————
In audio signal processing, both fractional octave smoothing and spline smoothing play important roles, albeit serving different purposes and addressing different aspects of signal analysis and manipulation:

1. **Fractional Octave Smoothing**:
- **Application in Spectral Analysis**: Fractional octave smoothing is primarily used in the spectral analysis of audio signals. By averaging the signal's power spectrum over bandwidths that are fractions of an octave, this method helps in reducing noise and highlighting dominant frequencies in the signal. This is particularly useful for understanding the broad spectral characteristics of sound in various environments, such as in acoustic design, noise control, and audio engineering.
- **Visualization and Interpretation**: Smoothing the frequency spectrum makes it easier to visualize and interpret the data. For example, when assessing the acoustic properties of a room or a piece of audio equipment, fractional octave smoothing helps in identifying problem frequencies and assessing overall sound quality more clearly.

2. **Spline Smoothing**:
- **Curve Fitting and Interpolation**: In audio processing, spline smoothing can be used for tasks such as waveform interpolation, smoothing envelope curves, or creating smoothly varying filters. When an audio signal is sampled and analyzed, spline smoothing can help in reconstructing a smooth waveform from discrete data points, enhancing the quality of signal transformations or resampling.
- **Dynamic Range Compression and Equalization**: Splines can also be applied to dynamically modify the audio signal, such as in dynamic range compression where the envelope of the signal is smoothly adjusted, or in equalization where spline curves can define the gain applied across different frequency bands in a more visually intuitive and controllable manner.

**Combining Both Techniques**:
In practice, these techniques can be complementary. For example, in designing an audio processing algorithm or system, one might use fractional octave smoothing to analyze and understand the frequency content of an audio signal, and then use spline smoothing to design filters or equalizers that optimally modify the signal according to the observed spectral characteristics.

Overall, both types of smoothing help in managing the complexity and variability of audio signals, making them invaluable tools in the arsenal of audio engineers and signal processing specialists.
 
I think fractional makes the changes more subtle like correcting for the smooth result vs every peak and dip. Whereas, spine smoothing is how it has traditionally worked.

Here’s what I got from ChatGPT for what it’s worth. My summary above (which is a guess) is based on the AI’s response:
——————————
In audio signal processing, both fractional octave smoothing and spline smoothing play important roles, albeit serving different purposes and addressing different aspects of signal analysis and manipulation:

1. **Fractional Octave Smoothing**:
- **Application in Spectral Analysis**: Fractional octave smoothing is primarily used in the spectral analysis of audio signals. By averaging the signal's power spectrum over bandwidths that are fractions of an octave, this method helps in reducing noise and highlighting dominant frequencies in the signal. This is particularly useful for understanding the broad spectral characteristics of sound in various environments, such as in acoustic design, noise control, and audio engineering.
- **Visualization and Interpretation**: Smoothing the frequency spectrum makes it easier to visualize and interpret the data. For example, when assessing the acoustic properties of a room or a piece of audio equipment, fractional octave smoothing helps in identifying problem frequencies and assessing overall sound quality more clearly.

2. **Spline Smoothing**:
- **Curve Fitting and Interpolation**: In audio processing, spline smoothing can be used for tasks such as waveform interpolation, smoothing envelope curves, or creating smoothly varying filters. When an audio signal is sampled and analyzed, spline smoothing can help in reconstructing a smooth waveform from discrete data points, enhancing the quality of signal transformations or resampling.
- **Dynamic Range Compression and Equalization**: Splines can also be applied to dynamically modify the audio signal, such as in dynamic range compression where the envelope of the signal is smoothly adjusted, or in equalization where spline curves can define the gain applied across different frequency bands in a more visually intuitive and controllable manner.

**Combining Both Techniques**:
In practice, these techniques can be complementary. For example, in designing an audio processing algorithm or system, one might use fractional octave smoothing to analyze and understand the frequency content of an audio signal, and then use spline smoothing to design filters or equalizers that optimally modify the signal according to the observed spectral characteristics.

Overall, both types of smoothing help in managing the complexity and variability of audio signals, making them invaluable tools in the arsenal of audio engineers and signal processing specialists.
I asked the AI opinion of the impacts on the filters. The outcome sections is where they differentiate and I think my previous assessment was correct.

——————-
When applying signal filters based on fractional octave smoothing and spline smoothing in audio signal processing, the approaches and outcomes differ significantly due to the inherent properties and applications of each technique. Here’s how each would typically be used in the context of filtering an audio signal:

### 1. **Fractional Octave Smoothing Based Filters**

**Purpose and Application**:
- **Frequency Band Smoothing**: Filters based on fractional octave smoothing are generally used to smooth the frequency response of the audio signal. This is done by averaging the signal within specific frequency bands that are fractions of an octave wide, such as one-third or one-twelfth of an octave.
- **Noise Reduction and Spectral Analysis**: These filters are effective for noise reduction and for making spectral content more manageable and interpretable, particularly in tasks like room acoustics analysis or audio mastering.

**Characteristics**:
- **Bandpass Filtering**: Each filter band is essentially a bandpass filter centered on a specific frequency, with a bandwidth that conforms to the fractional octave specification.
- **Uniform Bandwidth Control**: The bandwidths increase logarithmically with frequency, which aligns well with human auditory perception.

**Outcome**:
- The resulting audio signal will have a smoother spectral representation, with less detail in the fine frequency structure and reduced high-frequency noise. This makes it easier to analyze and understand the overall spectral characteristics.

### 2. **Spline Smoothing Based Filters**

**Purpose and Application**:
- **Interpolation and Envelope Shaping**: Spline-based filters are more about creating smooth transitions and interpolations within an audio signal. They can be used to design custom filter curves or dynamically modify the signal envelope in tasks like compression or expansion.
- **Detailed and Flexible Control**: Spline smoothing offers precise control over the shape of the filter curve, allowing for detailed manipulation of the audio signal across its range.

**Characteristics**:
- **Smooth Polynomial Curves**: The filter is defined by polynomial segments that are smooth at the joins (knots), which can be strategically placed to affect the signal in desired ways.
- **Customizable Response**: The response curve of the filter can be intricately designed to meet specific audio processing goals, such as smoothing transients or shaping the tone.

**Outcome**:
- The audio signal processed through a spline-based filter will retain more of its original character but with smoother transitions and potentially enhanced or suppressed specific features, according to the design of the spline curve.

### Summary of Differences

- **Scope of Application**: Fractional octave filters are more about broad spectral smoothing and are generally used for analysis and broad adjustments, while spline filters are used for detailed signal shaping and precise control over the audio waveform.
- **Filter Design**: Fractional octave smoothing leads to a set of bandpass filters with logarithmically varying bandwidths, whereas spline smoothing involves designing a continuous, smooth filter curve that can vary in complexity and precision.
- **Outcome on Audio Signal**: Fractional octave smoothing simplifies and smooths the frequency spectrum, making it easier to handle and interpret for human listeners or for further processing steps. Spline smoothing, on the other hand, modifies the waveform directly, allowing for subtle adjustments and smooth interpolations that can enhance the audio quality or achieve specific effects.

In practice, the choice between these filtering techniques would depend on the specific needs of the audio processing task, whether focusing on frequency analysis and noise reduction or on waveform manipulation and detailed control.
 
Why would I want to read that, given the high potential for significant errors?
 
Yer dreamin'.

The only thing quoting AI bots achieves is the need to fact check every single bit of what it says. With luck, there are no major errors. More usually, there are some: could be anywhere.

The discussion is diverted from the subject at hand, to whether or not the AI bot got it right. Pointless and a big waste of time.

I recommend to all readers, don't bother reading those quotes unless you are more interested in AI bot tech development than the subject itself.
 
I think fractional makes the changes more subtle like correcting for the smooth result vs every peak and dip. Whereas, spine smoothing is how it has traditionally worked.

Comparing the two, it looks like it's the opposite, fractional octave smoothing seems to make finer adjustments:

Spline:
Spline.jpg

Octave:
Octave.jpg
 
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