Audyssey's Next Generation of Room Correction (MultEQ-X)

[Trell]

Is there a mac version on the way?

Will this update make dual sub with different settings possible on a X4500H?

My understanding that there is none planned but they apparently gonna make a survey to gauge the interest. My guess is that with a small number of users it it unlikely to happen, at least in the short term.

 

[JeffS7444]

At the 11:05 mark, Jeff Clark notes that this software will have most value for MultiEq XT32 users, due to XT32's greater range of capabilities. I'll probably give this new software a pass, because as the owner of a MultiEq-equipped receiver (not XT or XT32) it's not clear to me that I'll see much benefit versus the $20 iOS app that I already bought.

Not sure what to make of the pricing, but at least they've published the prices and made it easy for anyone to sample the software. Wish the $200 fee were tied to the hardware (where it might add a bit of resale value) but ultimately it might not make much difference unless you are a frequent upgrader.

 

[amper42]

Is there a mac version on the way?

Will this update make dual sub with different settings possible on a X4500H?

There is no Mac version being developed at this time. All of the updates are future plans. Looking at how often the Audyssey app was updated or documentation released for it this could be a slow process. The video released is a recording of the webinar of Wed, Dec 15. I'm sure Audyssey wants this to work but Mac development is not at the top of the list and usually requires a separate set of skills/tools. You can see the majority of change from the App is simply being able to type in the FR points desired rather than using your finger. It's basically a better "Ratbuddy" at this point.

GitHub - ratbuddy/ratbuddyssey: Audyssey .ady file editor

Audyssey .ady file editor. Contribute to ratbuddy/ratbuddyssey development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Below is a section from page 6 of the new MultEQ-X Manual concerning Mac OS compatibility:
"Special Notes for Mac Users
Apple Mac M1 support is not available at this time. Intel-based Mac computers CAN run Windows 10/11 in bootcamp or virtualization, and will run MultEQ-X well. New Mac computers are based on the Apple M1 processor, which is an ARM-based processor. At the time of writing, they no longer officially support running Windows in Bootcamp. Running MultEQ-X in Windows ARM natively on the Mac M1 is not supported by Apple or Microsoft, and so MultEQ-X is not tested and not supported in this configuration. Mac computers can also run Windows 11 ARM in emulation, such as with VMWare Parallels. This configuration is NOT supported because Windows 11 ARM would require x64 virtualization to run MultEQ-X, but multiple layers of emulation are not possible. Check the Windows Store page for an ARM version of MultEQ-X, which will be supported as soon as possible."

Resources

https://audyssey.com/MultEQ-X%20User%20Guide.pdf

Audyssey MultEQ-X Features and Thoughts

Audyssey has introduced MultEQ-X, a PC based software program that connects to Marantz and Denon AVRs that currently support the Audyssey Mobile App. Here are its main features and my thoughts.

simplehomecinema.com

 

[Trell]

You can see the majority of change from the App is simply being able to type in the FR points desired rather than using your finger. It's basically a better "Ratbuddy" at this point.

The Android/iOS UI design of the Audyssey app is awful when the only way to edit points is by touch&drag, and is an indication of incompetence by those responsible for the app (not necessarily the developers hired to write it). The app is in the useful but unusable category for important functionality.

On the free SVS app for their subwoofers you use sliders to change fr, boost and Q by touch for the three PEQ, but you can also click on arrows beside each slider for fine adjustment. That works pretty well.

 

[bigguyca]

Good post!
You know what's even funnier, over on AVS Forum there's a dedicated thread for the Editor app that's been up since 5-2017 when it was released and is now over 404 pages, 8075 posts long. You wouldn't believe the amount of posts that have been made whining, pissing, and moaning over the $20 they charge for the app. WTF, are you kidding me, $20 more dollars into a system they have thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars into already? I couldn't believe it, talk about CHEAP. LOL
I posted more than once IMO that the $20 was probably the best deal I got EVER in Hi Fi .
That was not well received by many.

Agreed.

AVS Forum, and unfortunately to too large a degree, this forum, are populated by what can be termed elementary school arithmetic audiophiles.

These folks have little to contribute and essentially understand nothing about the underlying technology, but they are quick to note that one option costs more than another The forum covering the editor application is prime example.

In almost any comparison of (1) two or more options there will be geniuses who manage to determine, likely after extensive contemplation, that one option costs more than another. This determination of which option costs more is typically their only contribution. Normally other geniuses will pile-on since these forums often have a cancel-culture on steroids. Evidently these individuals believe they are providing key insights and analysis that others will miss, having failed elementary school arithmetic.

Unfortunately the poll for this thread seems to fit with the thought process that is described above, with a total concentration on price.


(1) This isn't about $10k DAC's or ridiculous cables, the subject here is two or more realistic options.

 

[Sal1950]

That's a huge amount of money to spend considering Audyssey's base capability has not changed in what... 10 years? I have no idea when XT32 was introduced.

That's BS, It changed radically with the introduction of the app for a lousy extra $20.
Enough so that I went out and upgraded my AV7701 for a 7703 to gain it's capability..
That and to have the ability to individually tune my dual subs, something Dirac didn't offer for another 4 years. Now today with Dirac it will only cost you another $700, the $200 upgrade to Dirac Full and another $500 for the Bass Management program, yet people are calling this Audyssey $200 a rip off?
I like to see the program transferable otherwise I'm completely happy with the options D-M offers its customer base.

 

[Sal1950]

The Android/iOS UI design of the Audyssey app is awful when the only way to edit points is by touch&drag, and is an indication of incompetence by those responsible for the app (not necessarily the developers hired to write it). The app is in the useful but unusable category for important functionality.

Just use Bluestacks emulator on Windoz, It's been working perfectly for me for a long time now.

 

[tecnogadget]

We need measurements and comparison with other EQ soft asap !!

 

[Chromatischism]

We need measurements and comparison with other EQ soft asap !!

The algorithms are the same, according to Jeff Clark. It's the new capabilities that are on offer here.

 

[jhaider]

Not based against what Dirac charges. $200 for Live to Full, and another $500 for the DLBC bass app.

That’s not a good comparison. DLBC had some hiccups but it adds a huge and valuable feature. I’m still trying to figure out what this new software does beyond trade modern target curve drawing for old fashioned manual PEQ.

Now today with Dirac it will only cost you another $700, the $200 upgrade to Dirac Full and another $500 for the Bass Management program, yet people are calling this Audyssey $200 a rip off?

Rip off is subjective, but in terms of added value DLBC simply adds more than this appears to right now. So the comparison really makes no sense.

I do agree that the iOS Audyssey app adds considerable value. I would say it takes Audyssey from no thanks to recommended. Hopefully they keep it alongside the new thing.

 

[Chromatischism]

Rip off is subjective, but in terms of added value DLBC simply adds more than this appears to right now. So the comparison really makes no sense.

Because features like multi-sub are missing from Dirac whereas they've been part of Audyssey XT32 for 10 years. That's why Bass Control seems to add a lot.

Also I have to disagree, the new software for Audyssey adds a ton more new features that Bass Control does not over its standard version. So the $500 they want is a huge ask IMO. It's arguably more tempting to buy a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and learn MultiSub Optimizer.

 

[Chromatischism]

Technically my poll vote is:

"I'm a current AVR owner. $200 price is acceptable, and though I don't like the restrictive terms, there are no better options, so I will buy it."

 

[Chromatischism]

Will this update make dual sub with different settings possible on a X4500H?

If you're asking if you can set them up in stereo, no.

Audyssey at its core time aligns and equalizes two subs together per best practice. The software interface gives us more control but it does not alter the core functionality (at this moment in time).

 

[jhaider]

Because features like multi-sub are missing from Dirac whereas they've been part of Audyssey XT32 for 10 years. That's why Bass Control seems to add a lot.

Sorry, but matching levels and delays of two subs isn’t “multi-sub.” That’s just a crapshoot.

 

[Chromatischism]

Sorry, but matching levels and delays of two subs isn’t “multi-sub.” That’s just a crapshoot.

I'm pretty sure any time two or more subs are integrated and equalized it's called multi-sub. At least on this planet.

 

[Sancus]

I'm pretty sure any time two or more subs are integrated and equalized it's called multi-sub. At least on this planet.

You cannot independently equalize two subs with any Audyssey AVR, they're treated as 1 channel in terms of EQ. So to compare with DLBC you actually need to buy a miniDSP 2x4 HD just to get close to the same capability. This app doesn't change that limitation, as was established earlier in the thread.

Also I have to disagree, the new software for Audyssey adds a ton more new features that Bass Control does not over its standard version. So the $500 they want is a huge ask IMO. It's arguably more tempting to buy a MiniDSP 2x4 HD and learn MultiSub Optimizer.

E: Oh, and I love MSO, it produces fantastic results especially for free software. But it would be misleading to say it's better than Bass Control(or this app makes Audyssey better). MSO can only optimize crossover with L/R or C(your choice). It doesn't optimize every crossover in a multi-channel system. I do plan to do a direct comparison whenever I buy a DLBC AVR though and post detailed measurements, because I'm not 100% sure how material the difference is.

 

[Haint]

Agreed.

AVS Forum, and unfortunately to too large a degree, this forum, are populated by what can be termed elementary school arithmetic audiophiles.

These folks have little to contribute and essentially understand nothing about the underlying technology, but they are quick to note that one option costs more than another The forum covering the editor application is prime example.

In almost any comparison of (1) two or more options there will be geniuses who manage to determine, likely after extensive contemplation, that one option costs more than another. This determination of which option costs more is typically their only contribution. Normally other geniuses will pile-on since these forums often have a cancel-culture on steroids. Evidently these individuals believe they are providing key insights and analysis that others will miss, having failed elementary school arithmetic.

Unfortunately the poll for this thread seems to fit with the thought process that is described above, with a total concentration on price.


(1) This isn't about $10k DAC's or ridiculous cables, the subject here is two or more realistic options.

Thank you for the valuable insight, what a thorough evaluation of Dirac and Audyssey. You really changed a lot of hearts and minds with such compelling and well supported arguments. Glad we have an Audyssey and Dirac engineer like yourself on hand to school all us elementary school arithmetic audiophiles.

You cannot independently equalize two subs with any Audyssey AVR, they're treated as 1 channel in terms of EQ. So to compare with DLBC you actually need to buy a miniDSP 2x4 HD just to get close to the same capability. This app doesn't change that limitation, as was established earlier in the thread.

It also does a poor job with the level and delay matching IME, you're much better off doing it manually and Y-cabling the subs to a single input before running Audyssey. XT32 is generally very good at frequency response correction, but terrible at everything else (sub alignment, crossover, etc...)

 

[Trell]

You cannot independently equalize two subs with any Audyssey AVR, they're treated as 1 channel in terms of EQ.

It was not always so and was changed later to todays functionality as they found it worked better.

Here is an article that is written in 2010 (checking the date on the forum posts) while the date on the article is from 2015 (probably republished).

Home Theater Multiple Subwoofer Set-Up & Calibration Guide

This article discusses methods of proper placement, and setup of multiple subwoofers to achieve the best measurable and audible results for your entire listening area not just a single sweet spot.

www.audioholics.com

>>>
As you can see Audyssey created a very ragged response, much worse than having no EQ employed at all. I even tried setting up my AVP-A1HDCI via 3 sub outs but had the same unfortunate results.

When I first setup the Audioholics Showcase Home Theater room, Audyssey's Chief Tech Officer Chris Kyriakakis paid me a visit. We spent countless hours calibrating measuring and calibrating my system. It was at that time we realized the best way to apply EQ would be to apply a simultaneous single correction curve to all of the subs. Chris agreed but unfortunately no Audyssey enabled A/V receivers or processors featuring multiple subwoofer outputs support this. Audyssey did however employ this in their new subwoofer calibration standalone processors: the Audyssey Sub Equalizer and the SVS AS-EQ1. Audyssey took it one step further by measuring each sub individually, adjusting phase, distance and level and then applying a single correction curve to both subwoofers. We pleaded with Denon to offer this for the AVP-A1HDCI Pre/Pro and they claim this upgrade is in the works. We keep our fingers crossed for that day but for now I pain through the process of using a single subwoofer output and making the best of a single delay setting for all four subwoofers not theoretically perfectly positioned in my odd shaped room.

Over time I became smarter and gave up the notion of independent subs. Thus until the above mentioned firmware update becomes available, we highly recommend you utilize a single subwoofer output for all of your subs when using Audyssey. This applies to most of the other room correction systems that I've tested. Below are the results of such a setup which you can see were quite favorable.
<<<

 

[Chromatischism]

You cannot independently equalize two subs with any Audyssey AVR, they're treated as 1 channel in terms of EQ.

Maybe you replied to the wrong post, but I said the same thing above:

If you're asking if you can set them up in stereo, no.

Audyssey at its core time aligns and equalizes two subs together per best practice. The software interface gives us more control but it does not alter the core functionality (at this moment in time).

 

[jhaider]

Audyssey at its core time aligns and equalizes two subs together per best practice.

That’s not, and never was, “best practice.”

The competent approach has always been to use level and phase/delay as degrees of freedom to achieve the smoothest response.