Audyssey's Next Generation of Room Correction (MultEQ-X)

[peng]

I'd be okay without the discount, but I shouldn't have to buy a new license one for every AVR I buy. They could allow one license reset or addition via online proof of purchase submittal, for example, if they're that afraid people will misuse the licensing for multiple units they don't own. People should be able to transfer the license via serial number for free or a reduced cost. Limit it to a certain number per year if they must. Instead they took the most anti-consumer approach they could.

I suggested that only because if I bought the $200 package then I won't be using the $20 App but agreed, not really a make or break issue.

If I understood them right, you can transfer the license to a replacement unit in case the unit failed, but only if the replacement model is the same as the one failed. That doesn't seem fair but probably half fair I guess..

 

[sarumbear]

"Licenses are per-user and per-AVR-serial-number, and are non-transferrable."

$200 per AVR, non-transferable to a new buyer, and not usable on a new AVR? That's going to be a deal breaker for many people, possibly for me. It's a shockingly consumer unfriendly move.

Maybe I’m missing something but what I see is they are charging money to bring extra functionality to an AVR. When you sell that AVR the functionality goes with that AVR.

When you buy an option for your car isn’t it the same? Why should I expect the superior sound system option I paid for my BMW to be applied to my new BMW?

Audyssey is not a measurement tool that is used by a technician or a hobbyist. It’s is an option for an AVR.

 

[KMO]

Maybe I’m missing something but what I see is they are charging money to bring extra functionality to an AVR. When you sell that AVR the functionality goes with that AVR.

No it doesn't - it won't work for the new user.

Well, unless they're happy with the calibration for your old room, and aren't intending to run their own.

(At least this is what I'm assuming when they say per-user. With Audyssey Pro, you have to regenerate keys online from your installer account for one of your licensed AVRs. With that system I suppose the new owner could get in touch with the old owner to ask them to ask Audyssey for a new key whenever necessary. They last a month. This might be tricker though.)

 

[peng]

Something I learnt from the webinar is about the hated MRC. I remember people used to complain about it and thought it spoiled the "sound" completely, yet Audyssey does it to not EQ the dip out. So if the speaker was not designed to have that "BBC dip" then there won't be a dip. If it was designed to have one that Audyssey would leave it there but you have the MRC disabled. Talked about expectation bias/Placebo, that was another solid proof.

 

[EB1000]

Audyssey releases MultEQ-X advanced room calibration for Denon and Marantz AVRs

A desktop-based app for enhanced tweaking

www.whathifi.com

200$ for a Windows version of MultiEQ app. But it does seem to allow you to do a full off-line calibration using a USB mic like the Umik-1/2. The free version won't connect to the AVR. I need to see a review with measurements before considering it...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

But it does seem to allow you to do a full off-line calibration using a USB mic like the Umik-1/2.

It will not. They stated so explicitly.

 

[chych7]

Too bad on using a calibrated mic like UMIK-1... looks like I'd have to run the calibration with the default mic, add whatever PEQ filters, remeasure with UMIK-1/REW, and manually adjust the filters until the speaker response matches the desired target in REW.

 

[AdamG]

Duplicate threads merged here. Some posts may be out of order. Apologies for that. Happens when we consolidate threads.

Carry on!

 

[EB1000]

OK, no Umik support, and after you pay 200$ for your current AVR, you'll have to pay 200$ more when you decide to upgrade the AVR to a newer model... I'll save the 200$ and wait for Onkyo RZ-70 coming in 2022, then buy DLBC license...

 

[beren777]

Maybe I’m missing something but what I see is they are charging money to bring extra functionality to an AVR. When you sell that AVR the functionality goes with that AVR.

When you buy an option for your car isn’t it the same? Why should I expect the superior sound system option I paid for my BMW to be applied to my new BMW?

Audyssey is not a measurement tool that is used by a technician or a hobbyist. It’s is an option for an AVR.

I would expect BMW to not come and rip out the sound system option when I sell the car. The buyer would also be quite upset at such an act.

It's a software license. They could easily allow transfers but choose not to, and the only rational reason is "we think these suckers will bend over and take it."

 

[sarumbear]

I would expect BMW to not come and rip out the sound system option when I sell the car. The buyer would also be quite upset at such an act.

It's a software license. They could easily allow transfers but choose not to, and the only rational reason is "we think these suckers will bend over and take it."

They are not ripping anything though do they? They are just selling you a non-transferable license. It’s not nice but it’s almost the norm in the software industry. Here’s a case for one the most use software in the world, MS Office.

Denon just learning how to earn money from software. There’s no malice here. There’s though ignorance on the forum.

 

[Webninja]

I watched part of the webinar, and I did like that the file output format is JSON, so it should be able to add in a house curve. I have bought the app twice (Android and then again when I switched to IPhone).

I would pay for not having to use my fat fingers to adjust the curves in the app, but that’s worth $50, maybe $100 if it could be used on all my AVRs. I think there are enough features over the app, just that they priced this incorrectly. I’d still consider a Dirac AVR for my next purchase, if this was priced lower, I might never consider a non-Audyssey AVR.

 

[amper42]

I suggested that only because if I bought the $200 package then I won't be using the $20 App but agreed, not really a make or break issue.

If I understood them right, you can transfer the license to a replacement unit in case the unit failed, but only if the replacement model is the same as the one failed. That doesn't seem fair but probably half fair I guess..

I don't see anything fair about this entire product. Sound United ties the useful life of the $200 software package to a single AVR. That's absolutely crazy. Nobody wants to buy software with a life limited to a receiver that goes out of phase every few years. Then, they do not support UMIK, don't support currently available curve formats, and build in the BBC curve that everyone hates. There is no recognition that you already paid a boatload for the AVR. To encourage customers to buy more product it should be able to be used on new units as well. The marketing scheme is terrible and the copy protection means you can't use it off line.

It's as if this product is not from Denon/Marantz but instead from a 3rd party that's trying to build a software business off receivers. I can't imagine anyone wanting to be taken advantage of by this sales scheme. You are better off spending the $200 toward the biggest Tablet you can get and use the $20 app. This gives Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra integrated Dirac a big advantage. If I was selling those brands I would advertise Dirac like crazy.

 

[fieldcar]

You are better off spending the $200 toward the biggest Tablet you can get and use the $20 app.

 

[jhaider]

Something I learnt from the webinar is about the hated MRC. I remember people used to complain about it and thought it spoiled the "sound" completely, yet Audyssey does it to not EQ the dip out. So if the speaker was not designed to have that "BBC dip" then there won't be a dip. If it was designed to have one that Audyssey would leave it there but you have the MRC disabled. Talked about expectation bias/Placebo, that was another solid proof.

That is either a misunderstanding, misinformation, or a pandemic-era correction of previous bad behavior. Audyssey did impose their midrange voicing choice (some might say error) on everyone using their "reference" curve.

See, e.g, the measurements in my Marantz AV7702 AVP and Denon X4100 AVR reviews for examples of Audyssey imposing this dip despite use of good speakers. I wish more people measured what RC systems do in reviews. That's the single most sonically-relevant thing about the damn boxes.

I never tested it with the App because the first thing I did upon opening the app was get rid of that dumb dip!

As for this new version, I lost all interest when I saw it wasn't for Macs. I read that as part of the original billing, so that is a huge disappointment.

 

[Haint]

Given the timing I thought for sure this was going to be a direct response to Onkyo/Pioneer getting Dirac, but wow they've taken stupid to a whole new level, $200 for EACH AVR is completely divorced from reality. Imagine telling your best customers who are running and frequently updating Denon/Marantz AVR's in multiple rooms (having already paid the built-in Audyssey's licensing cost several times over) that they have to shell out $200 per unit for a user interface that only partially fixes the deficiencies people have been complaining about for more than a decade. They're actively disincentivizing people from upgrading and/or buying multiple Denon/Marantz AVR's here, absolute braindead business sense. This is a niche market carried heavily (if not majority) by word of mouth marketing. I can't think of any scenario where someone should buy or recommend a Denon/Marantz product when Onkyo/Pioneer have even better functionality built-in to units that cost several hundred dollars less.

 

[beren777]

They are not ripping anything though do they? They are just selling you a non-transferable license. It’s not nice but it’s almost the norm in the software industry. Here’s a case for one the most use software in the world, MS Office.

Denon just learning how to earn money from software. There’s no malice here. There’s though ignorance on the forum.

And yet that same person in your example would be able to use it on multiple computers of their own, or to move it to a new computer.

Also, if you bought Office licensed to a computer the license follows that computer, for example to a new owner.

The emerging norm these days is to tie rights to a user service account, and the rights are generally portable to new hardware the user purchases.

If I could purchase a license tied to a Sound United account and use that license on another AVR I purchase in the future, I would have no complaints. As it is, they are effectively giving everyone 200 reasons to buy a Dirac-enabled Onkyo instead for their next upgrade.

 

[sarumbear]

If I could purchase a license tied to a Sound United account and use that license on another AVR I purchase in the future, I would have no complaints. As it is, they are effectively giving everyone 200 reasons to buy a Dirac-enabled Onkyo instead for their next upgrade.

Maybe they realise that and change their ways? This is why ASR exists.

What I wanted to show to the posters who think Denon are money grabbers or stupid that they are not. They are a hardware company dipping their toes into the software market. Apple, Tesla, they all do the same, but as you said they do it in away that they do not alienate people.

Like it or not, this is the future.

 

[Trell]

Maybe they realise that and change their ways? This is why ASR exists.

What I wanted to show to the posters who think Denon are money grabbers or stupid that they are not. They are a hardware company dipping their toes into the software market. Apple, Tesla, they all do the same, but as you said they do it in away that they do not alienate people.

Like it or not, this is the future.

We’ll see more details later what this new app does and future plans, and I hope the offering gets better than it appears today.

To me it looks like an app that runs on Windows and costs 10 times more with smaller improvements over the mobile app. Not being able to use my own measurement mic is a big negative.

So not a release that I hoped for.

 

[Datec]

Ok. I just bought the license for my Marantz. I just had to see for myself. Got to go do some reading up on it but have a few questions regarding when I connect and shows a list of channels connected to myself AVR, seems a few of mine are greyed out and can't be checked but in the Sample AVR they show up.