Audio Science Review

[Simon 13th]

Unless you do your subjective review repeatedly, consitently, in a DBT - it's not "factual".

It’s reasonably proven if x bod does it and another and then you go into your hifi dealer. Nobody needs to prove anything. the proof is to yourself. No? Not me proving it to you.

 

[JustJones]

I’d maybe like to do it, but then again.....you’d get loads of posts like this doubting it, and anyway for me it would be like setting out to tell why I like fresh spag bol over mouldy spag Bol. It’s testing something I don’t need to do. if I can’t tell the difference between a musical fidelity mix-dac and dCS bartok it’s time to.....

Can you tell a difference between those two DACs?

 

[Simon 13th]

@Simon 13th I think the most important lesson for you would be that your senses are easily fooled and everybody is fallible. It is a hard thing for people to admit they are fallible, but such is life.



I agree, but for amplifiers for example you also need to take into account the use case. Your 5 watt amplifier isn't going to drive Salon 2's to decent levels. Of course power output is also a measurements, but whether an amplifier will always operate within its operating range depends on the use case. A DAC (or cd player, network player, etc) will always perform at the same level.

I think that’s the default position when if you can’t prove it, people think if they think it’s best and so do lots of others. In other words it’s a conspiracy theory.

 

[Simon 13th]

Can you tell a difference between those two DACs?

Absolutely

 

[Frank Dernie]

Isnt it too complex

Actually, in the case of DACs, no.
The only thing connecting the DAC to our world is the signal on its output connectors. That signal has magnitude, frequency and phase, there is nothing else. We can measure all three of these to a level of accuracy beyond the sensitivity of people's ears, so measuremnt tells everything about the sound accuracy.
The only things other than that a potential purchaser needs to know are how well made it is and what things like functions and styling.
Any SQ differences heard if the output signal is accurate are imagined, or the favoured unit was a bit louder.
If one DAC has audible shortcomings it is badly engineered. having a preference for it isn't impossible but it ain't high fidelity and this can only be pointed out by doing measurements.

 

[eddantes]

It’s reasonably proven if x bod does it and another and then you go into your hifi dealer. Nobody needs to prove anything. the proof is to yourself. No? Not me proving it to you.

Not sure I can parse that response... But what I am trying to say: unless a person can repeatedly validate a subjective opinion in a double blind test - it is not a "fact", but just an opinion. And as opinion's go - God bless - everyone's got one.

Also - I think we're feeding a troll here folks...

 

[JustJones]

Absolutely

Really got a link to one of your videos showing it or do I simply take your word for it?

 

[abdo123]

but do you assume the dac ain’t good to not try it based on measurements?

Yes, buying a DAC is not different than buying a car or a new computer.

Performance + features > a random guy’s opinion on YouTube.

 

[Koeitje]

I think that’s the default position when if you can’t prove it, people think if they think it’s best and so do lots of others. In other words it’s a conspiracy theory.

I don't understand what you are trying to say?

 

[threni]

Absolutely

One video I'd watch would be someone giving you a blind test. Hear you saying before how confident you are you can tell them apart. Maybe stump up a small amount of money you can donate to deaf orphans or whatever if you lose; then do the test. That way, after the test either some orphans get a bite to eat, or we can exhibit you in a circus as some sort of freak. Simon the human bat! I'd probably watch that video too.

 

[Simon 13th]

Actually, in the case of DACs, no.
The only thing connecting the DAC to our world is the signal on its output connectors. That signal has magnitude, frequency and phase, there is nothing else. We can measure all three of these to a level of accuracy beyond the sensitivity of people's ears, so measuremnt tells everything about the sound accuracy.
The only things other than that a potential purchaser needs to know are how well made it is and what things like functions and styling.
Any SQ differences heard if the output signal is accurate are imagined, or the favoured unit was a bit louder.
If one DAC has audible shortcomings it is badly engineered. having a preference for it isn't impossible but it ain't high fidelity and this can only be pointed out by doing measurements.

what would be an example of two well known DACs at wildly different prices that might be regarded by the subjective listeners as being miles apart but in measurements the same?

 

[Koeitje]

what would be an example of two well known DACs at wildly different prices that might be regarded by the subjective listeners as being miles apart but in measurements the same?

Nothing measures the same. You mean no audible differences?

 

[abdo123]

what would be an example of two well known DACs at wildly different prices that might be regarded by the subjective listeners as being miles apart but in measurements the same?

Schit Modi 3 vs their multibit lineup.

They’re both transparent on measurements , but the multi-bit is more ‘live music’.

Complete bogus claims btw.

 

[Nichdroid]

it’s time to.....

It's time to buy a proper Audio Precision analyzer

 

[BDWoody]

if I can’t tell the difference between a musical fidelity mix-dac and dCS bartok it’s time to.....

...admit it.

 

[Simon 13th]

Really got a link to one of your videos showing it or do I simply take your word for it?

nobody bases Judgements on empirical evidence though do you. Your car is the better one on build quality? Show me in the quality of plastic and chemical composition. Your fav restaurant is preferred but show me the evidence based on chemical composition. We live our lives based on common sense, logic, our own world experiences. Surely?

 

[voodooless]

what would be an example of two well known DACs at wildly different prices that might be regarded by the subjective listeners as being miles apart but in measurements the same?

Mola Mola vs Gustard X16. Good luck, you’ll need it!

 

[sergeauckland]

@Simon 13th I think the most important lesson for you would be that your senses are easily fooled and everybody is fallible. It is a hard thing for people to admit they are fallible, but such is life.



I agree, but for amplifiers for example you also need to take into account the use case. Your 5 watt amplifier isn't going to drive Salon 2's to decent levels. Of course power output is also a measurements, but whether an amplifier will always operate within its operating range depends on the use case. A DAC (or cd player, network player, etc) will always perform at the same level.

I suppose there's no accounting for user incompetence, (read, stupidity!) but assuming a sensible user, then of course, power output (and load conditions) are measurements that will determine whether an amplifier is suitable for the job required of it.

I agree it's harder for a DAC to be abused, but then again, some DACs may be unhappy driving a lowish load impedance, just as one example, so knowing the conditions of use and the designers' specification is necessary.

S.

 

[Simon 13th]

Schit Modi 3 vs their multibit lineup.

They’re both transparent on measurements , but the multi-bit is more ‘live music’.

Complete bogus claims btw.

I think they are too close. I’ve tried the multibit One. Youd have to do a chord Hugo tt2 v chord mojo or mx dac type test, where they are obviously apart.

 

[JustJones]

nobody bases Judgements on empirical evidence though do you. Your car is the better one on build quality? Show me in the quality of plastic and chemical composition. Your fav restaurant is preferred but show me the evidence based on chemical composition. We live our lives based on common sense, logic, our own world experiences. Surely?

I don't claim my auto, restuarant choices etc.. are superior to others choices as a fact but an opinion. If I claim one is better then I need some way to prove it or it's simply blabbering.