Audio Science Review

[ahofer]

OK. I’m going to point out at this point that you are basically rejecting both the scientific consensus on thresholds of audibility and standard electronic engineering practice. But let’s ignore that, humour me; what evidence would you accept as demonstrating that you can’t hear a dac with a SINAD of 115 db?

Also appears to be rejecting behavioral research. Ask Danny Kahneman, the Nobel Prize winner:

"It’s false to hope that if you become more aware of your errors you will make better decisions, says Danny. There has been no breakthrough on efforts to reduce bias."

The article also makes some good points about "noise" that our OP would do well to consider.

 

[voodooless]

The argument of what people say when you chat to them about their experiences of the sound quality is more persuasive.

That it’s easier to persuade people based on one argument vs another doesn’t make that argument more valid.

 

[rdenney]

when I hear others (reviewers and punters) say the same in subjective tests in different countries , with different ears and different systems, I have a good understanding that what I’ve got of my own impressions are accurate. Again common sense.

Maybe. But what if it turns out that the consensus you detect is really just an echo chamber?

But let's assume all those reviewers are right and the measurements inadequate to detect differences that listeners can detect. If that's true, then there should be no difficulty identifying what those differences are in some consistent way. If 19 of 20 reviewers agree, in properly controlled testing, that DAC A has a more authoritative bass than DAC B, yet the measurements don't explain why, then the scientists and engineers will begin earnestly seeking out the missing measurements that reveal it. But when it turns out that once the devices are covered up and level matched, nobody can reliably tell the difference between them, then it seems the reviewers were just rewriting each other. That happens a lot on the Internet.

Rick "that's why people should not write what they do not personally know to be true" Denney

 

[Simon 13th]

That it’s easier to persuade people based on one argument vs another doesn’t make that argument more valid.

when they are independently reached. I don’t read others on sq points until I have written down my reckoning. What I often find is I agree with them, so that Cannot be by chance

 

[Jimbob54]

no it isn’t . If I say that a doctor is going to do a hearing aid test of two hearing aids and tell you one is better when they are the same, you might be susceptible to bias as doctors are trusted. If I tell you the doctor is a fraudster beforehand or not even a doctor, it will put a different complexion on result. so you say I’m as susceptible as another , that would not be right. If you were less trusting you would be less susceptible. That’s only one factor!

I'd ask to see repeatable measurements of the hearing aids rather than rely on your recommendation for an audiologist. If you dont see where this is going, you might need an ophthalmologist. I can recommend one if you like? Do you trust me?

 

[VintageFlanker]

Welcome.

But the sense I’m getting is most people on here buy the hifi without use of a comparative personal and subjective views and based on measurements alone, and I think this is really damaging to impress on others that this is how they should buy too. To put a dac at the same quality as what others may know as better to someone who is yet to make their mind up - maybe a newbie - is incredibly damaging to manufacturers and the industry when they are steered differently to their own views.

Then what? ASR is not responsible because some manufacturers didn't do their homework and missed (intentionally or not) foundamentals when designing their products.

There is also the point that trying to use measurments and other interpretations of them to decide what sounds best is incredibly fraught with error.

This is pure extrapolation and you're actually very wrong about that. Factually. Try to tell the same to people who spent decades to demonstrate the correlation between measurements and subjective listening and preferences. Like, I don't know: @Sean Olive (?)

I would have got a better sense of the credible use of ASR. I think this site would have wider scope.

You came here pretending to ask but yet you don't want to listen our answers. What the point? You already made up your mind, no doubt about that.

Suggestions has been made for your video: Blind listening/level matched and try to prove you can actually hear differences between DACs... Without knowing which one is playing.

The end.

 

[ahofer]

If you were less trusting you would be less susceptible.

SO now it isn't expertise, it's a personality trait? I'm sorry, but that's not an argument that you can reduce your bias, especially when you aren't using a scientific method to do so.

 

[BDWoody]

I think we've let this go on long enough.

I look forward to the video!