Audio Note speakers

[Mart68]

Yes, both measurement led manufacturers,
Keith

As are B&W but they have not designed for a flat response in years now.

They must have based that on some research they've done, since they could design an accurate speaker in their sleep.

 

[Purité Audio]

Quite, it would be interesting to know B&W’s reasoning, presumably it is differentiation at the point of sales and ‘house’ sound, certainly commercial rather than SQ.
Keith

 

[LTig]

That's one way to look at it but there are two rather large Audio Note Threads on the Steve Hoffman forum that illustrate that what people want is to take a platform and make it better.

It's no different than buying a Toyota Corolla - you buy it because you can only afford $20,000 then you say - wow this thing has been great for the last 8 years - now I have a better job and more money - I'm going to look at a Camry or hell maybe a Lexus ES-350 - get the same bomb-proof reliability but more power, quieter ride - take all the good stuff and make it better.

Sure, this does happen.

Virtually every audio company (including by the way all the professional loudspeaker and most all of the professional amplifier makers) have more than one model - they offer el cheapo models for the paeons and they sell ridiculously expensive models - You can buy an ATC for $2k or well over $50k. Does that mean that the $2k models are all total shit because the customers decides he wants "more" of that ATC sound?

No, those speakers are made for different applications (listening distance, max SPL) but the tonality is always very close. Genelec for example has a very large range of speakers, from a tiny 3" 2-way (8010A, 1.5 kg) to a monster sized main monitor with two 18" woofers (1236A, 182 kg). You just have to choose the model which fits your needs best, just buying higher makes no sense - good luck with placing two 1236A on your desktop or trying to run a large mastering room with two 8010A built into the wall .

 

[Ron Texas]

Conversely, if you bought most any American piece of crap - and if it even survived the warranty - you're not exactly saying to yourself - oh yeah that was a total pile - let me rush out and buy the Malibu. I mean indeed, people caught on to how ****** Ford was on Sedans that they stopped making them - that's how awful they are - they still make the Mustang with all the numerous recalls but I guess people put up with that because of the name badge.

My, how thoughtless of you. You just stepped on a lot of people's toes without even thinking about it.

Mustangs sell because they are fast, sexy and the last remaining example of their genre. To get that package buyers are willing to accept more frequent repairs. Some US vehicles have unusual longevity like the Suburban, for example. Buicks have better than average reliability combined with low repair costs. For unreliable vehicles look at VW and Mercedes.

 

[Soniclife]

I don’t enjoy lo-fi.

Are you sure?

Lo-fi music - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[MattHooper]

My, how thoughtless of you. You just stepped on a lot of people's toes without even thinking about it.

Mustangs sell because they are fast, sexy and the last remaining example of their genre. To get that package buyers are willing to accept more frequent repairs. Some US vehicles have unusual longevity like the Suburban, for example. Buicks have better than average reliability combined with low repair costs. For unreliable vehicles look at VW and Mercedes.

Cars have the function of getting us from one location to another in the cheapest, safest way possible.

Any deviation from this goal, like choosing a car that is not as fuel efficient as possible, or spending more money than you need to get between A and B is silly and irrational.

 

[Anton D]

Cars have the function of getting us from one location to another in the cheapest, safest way possible.

Any deviation from this goal, like choosing a car that is not as fuel efficient as possible, or spending more money than you need to get between A and B is silly and irrational.

It's a moral menace.

Doesn't Auto Science Review get through to these guys?

 

[Ron Texas]

Cars have the function of getting us from one location to another in the cheapest, safest way possible.

Any deviation from this goal, like choosing a car that is not as fuel efficient as possible, or spending more money than you need to get between A and B is silly and irrational.

Then take the bus.

 

[Selkirks]

As are B&W but they have not designed for a flat response in years now.

They must have based that on some research they've done, since they could design an accurate speaker in their sleep.

The B&W mention got me thinking about how much better the manufacturing and quality of product is compared to Audio Note speakers.

 

[Kevin1956]

So, I guess it is safe to assume that everyone who has commented that purchasing speakers should only be based on the “science” have ended up with the exact same speakers (at least by brand, if not model) since it would be wrong for any of them to have had a preference that differed from any of the others. Because preference is unscientific.

 

[Anton D]

So, I guess it is safe to assume that everyone who has commented that purchasing speakers should only be based on the “science” have ended up with the exact same speakers (at least by brand, if not model) since it would be wrong for any of them to have had a preference that differed from any of the others. Because preference is unscientific.

Or, they buy speakers which they then equalize away from flat in order to obey the Harman Curve because it is objectively more subjectively pleasant than flat.

I know it would end the forum to ask as a topic, but I'd love to know where people's OSC* is placed in all this.

* OCS: Objective/Subjective Converter. The point at which people switch from measuring to listening or enjoying. For me, it occurs at where the wires meet the speakers. Some analog sources excepted.

 

[MattHooper]

The B&W mention got me thinking about how much better the manufacturing and quality of product is compared to Audio Note speakers.

John Atkinson in his various B&W measurements has often remarked that he's puzzled by the frequency response; that he familiar with the level of technology in the B&W manufacturing, that they have good engineers, that they could make a flat frequency response easily, but they keep choosing these weird frequency profiles.

Apparently the B&W folks want as open and "boxless" a sound as possible, no sense of box coloration, and a vivid sound which to them sounds more like real life. Hence the final decisions being "by ear" and if that ends up being a less flat response, so be it (Again from what I've heard/read).

For me they are ultimately too colored, too hot in the highs and scooped in the mids. However, when I listen to their speakers, I kind of "get" what they are going for, and somewhat enjoy it. I've listened to a variety of B&Ws, including their 803 D4 speakers a few times at a local high end store. They really sound super clear, clean, vivid, spacious, and boxless from top to bottom. There's a real sense of hearing right in to the recording studio, and every detail easy to hear.

Last time I listened to them I was with my brother in law, and we first listened to a variety of music on the 803 D4 speakers and then on some large floor standing Sonus Faber Olympica Nova II speakers (IIRC). The SF speakers were fuller and richer sounding (and were also a bit closer to the back wall) and while we both ultimately preferred the SF speakers, my BIL really didn't care for the B&W sound - too lean for his taste - whereas I could appreciate both presentations. (Though if I had to own one set of speakers based only on what I heard, it would be the SF as they seemed less fatiguing and richer, even if not perfectly neutral in the top end).

 

[Selkirks]

my BIL really didn't care for the B&W sound - too lean for his taste - whereas I could appreciate both presentations.

I really only care for the 802 models and up for the same reason. The 804's I find specifically lacking "body" to the sound but I get what they are going for. From a manufacturing standpoint they are exceptional products.

 

[DannyBoyNYC]

Having read this entire thread I fear that much of this "hobby" amounts to little more than a severe case of late stage capitalist consumerism. I come to ASR for the science, a small amount of schadenfreude at the expense of audio phools, to understand acoustics and the reproduction of sound, and to get off the karmic cycle of upgrading - which AN seems to be quite adept at exploiting. (I must say though that this thread is as interesting an argument between the orthodox and heretics as I've experienced in quite a while.)

 

[Ron Texas]

Having read this entire thread I fear that much of this "hobby" amounts to little more than a severe case of late stage capitalist consumerism. I come to ASR for the science, a small amount of schadenfreude at the expense of audio phools, to understand acoustics and the reproduction of sound, and to get off the karmic cycle of upgrading - which AN seems to be quite adept at exploiting. (I must say though that this thread is as interesting an argument between the orthodox and heretics as I've experienced in quite a while.)

Capitalist consumerism, sounds awfully political to me.

 

[MattHooper]

Having read this entire thread I fear that much of this "hobby" amounts to little more than a severe case of late stage capitalist consumerism. I come to ASR for the science, a small amount of schadenfreude at the expense of audio phools, to understand acoustics and the reproduction of sound, and to get off the karmic cycle of upgrading - which AN seems to be quite adept at exploiting. (I must say though that this thread is as interesting an argument between the orthodox and heretics as I've experienced in quite a while.)

 

[Mart68]

Cars have the function of getting us from one location to another in the cheapest, safest way possible.

Any deviation from this goal, like choosing a car that is not as fuel efficient as possible, or spending more money than you need to get between A and B is silly and irrational.

No it isn't, but buying an massively overpriced car based solely on a sales pitch that has no basis in the reality of the product could be viewed as a mistake.

 

[Mnyb]

So, I guess it is safe to assume that everyone who has commented that purchasing speakers should only be based on the “science” have ended up with the exact same speakers (at least by brand, if not model) since it would be wrong for any of them to have had a preference that differed from any of the others. Because preference is unscientific.

Not really there are many ways to skin a cat , but in the AN case there is no cat or skin to begin with

There are plenty of reasonably designed speakers to pick from for everyone from many brands it's a fuzzy choice some users pick very differently knowingly .

But too many design choices in AN products are based on nonsense , in case of their electronics almost exclusively so ?
So if the designer makes products with this kind of process it's going to be expensive and do nothing or expensive with unexpected or detrimental results .

There other more odd ways to do a speaker in those cases like a dipoles electrostats line arrays or horns with shaped dispersion and whatnots .
The designer has some kind of rational though process behind their choice and can explain why . Meanwhile AN says stuff like " we have silver coils".

Some say if you have an infinite amount of monkeys with typewriters one is going type Shakespeare .
High end audio sometimes looks like an infinity amount o f monkeys got their grubby hands on a workshop and sometimes useful products pops out, but their sales people tries to market all of it.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Does it make sense ?

 

[Purité Audio]

PQ isn’t an engineer he is a salesman, everything he says is complete tosh.
Keith