ASR reccomended external crossovers?

[sergeauckland]

Passive bi-amping, i.e. using two (or more) power amps whilst retaining the loudspeaker's passive crossover is totally pointless. It's just the more expensive version of bi-wiring which is pointless enough in itself.

For a reason why passive bi-amping doesn't and can't work, look up the Superposition Principle. As amplifiers are linear to an extraordinary extent, there can't be any benefit to passive bi-amping except to the dealer's profit.

Active bi-amping, however, using an external electronic crossover before the power amps has many benefits, all quantifiable.

For very good explanations, look at
https://sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm
and
https://sound-au.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

S.

 

[Thomas savage]

So you're trying to bi-amp?

Isn't it already set up for this?

You just hook up one power amp to one input, and another to the other.

How dose this work if the amps you use have different gain ?

It's a seductive idea , low watt tube amp for highs class D big moma ( like ya moma's arse ) for bass but surely it creates more problems than it solves .. dose it solve any lol

 

[tomtoo]

Hi guys I was thinking of maybe biamping my speaker using a tube amp to power the highs and I know I will need to get an external active crossover to make such a setup work right.

Do any members here have experience with external crossovers? I know Bryston and Pass Labs sell crossovers but they are both quite expensive and quite rare on the used market. Also, Bryston crossovers seem to differ from year to year.

If I wind up buying from the states, I may send whatever I buy to Amir to measure first.

Why you should need a external crossover???
The Terminals go always over the internal crossover.
You just use them seperated, but your bass terminal goes over (easy spoken) goes over the Lowpass.
And the Highterminal goes over the highpass( with fr correction for the horn).

If you biamp you need a preamp with two outs for the poweramps. Thats it. Shure you have to level the poweramps. But both amps will deliver fullrange to the speakers. The rest does the passive network in the speakers. The Terminals are always before the x-over. Doesent matter if you split them

Or you would go full active. But then you would need to rewire the speakers. And you would need a dsp solution.

Btw. nice speakers!

 

[watchnerd]

How dose this work if the amps you use have different gain ?

It's a seductive idea , low watt tube amp for highs class D big moma ( like ya moma's arse ) for bass but surely it creates more problems than it solves .. dose it solve any lol

The 4367 has level controls to solve for that.

 

[watchnerd]

Passive bi-amping, i.e. using two (or more0) power amps whilst retaining the loudspeaker's passive crossover is totally pointless. It's just the more expensive version of bi-wiring which is pointless enough in itself.

For a reason why passive bi-amping doesn't and can't work, look up the Superposition Principle. As amplifiers are linear to an extraordinary extent, there can't be any benefit to passive bi-amping except to the dealer's profit.

Active bi-amping, however, using an external electronic crossover before the power amps has many benefits, all quantifiable.

For very good explanations, look at
https://sound-au.com/bi-amp.htm
and
https://sound-au.com/biamp-vs-passive.htm

S.

I didn't say it was a *good* idea....



But it's a popular one, and thus the whole reason JBL puts 2x terminals into the speaker in the first place.

 

[Thomas savage]

Well that's that I guess. Stupid manual!

And we trust Harman science when they can't even get a manual right .

Thank god for Alan Shaw .

 

[Thomas savage]

The 4367 has level controls to solve for that.

Really?! Ya mama ass is still wider than the inner state .

 

[tomtoo]

It could be usefull to biamp passive. At least for the Audiophiles. You could use a smoth tube amp for the horns. And a powerfull transistor for the bass.
I not say it's the way i would go. I just say there is at least a possible usecase.

 

[sergeauckland]

It could be usefull to biamp passive. At least for the Audiophiles. You could use a smoth tube amp for the horns. And a powerfull transistor for the bass.
I not say it's the way i would go. I just say there is at least a possible usecase.

If by 'audiophiles' you mean those for whom measurements are anathema, sure. For those who understand the science behind passive bi-amping, it's totally pointless.

S.

 

[Thomas savage]

If by 'audiophiles' you mean those for whom measurements are anathema, sure. For those who understand the science behind bi-amping, it's totally pointless.

S.

The idea of doing this used to make me feel ' safe and good ' .

Seemed like a wholesome idea.

 

[sergeauckland]

The idea of doing this used to make me feel ' safe and good ' .

Seemed like a wholesome idea.

Yes, spending more often makes one feel good, and indeed safe amongst those for whom more is better. Something like the amp that goes to 11.

Given how often passive bi-amping is recommended by the magazines and forums, and how pretty much all loudspeaker manufacturers have had to bow to the commercial inevitability of providing extra terminals, it doesn't surprise me that passive bi-amping is seen as an upgrade.

But then not much of audiophile stupidity surprises me any more.

S.

 

[tomtoo]

HaHa but i'am not a audiophile. I would love to give that suckers what they and i need. A 2502 and then lets rock!! And if this not enough? Ok givem two bridget. ; )

 

[Thomas savage]

HaHa but i'am not a audiophile. I would love to give that suckers what they and i need. A 2502 and then lets rock!! And if this not enough? Ok givem two " bridget it mother fucker ". ; )

Fify

 

[watchnerd]

HaHa but i'am not a audiophile. I would love to give that suckers what they and i need. A 2502 and then lets rock!! And if this not enough? Ok givem two bridget. ; )

You know they're 94 db sensitivity, right?

 

[tomtoo]

You know they're 94 db sensitivity, right?

Absolutly! Thats one of the points why i would love them. Driven with the right amp. ; )

 

[watchnerd]

Absolutly! Thats one of the points why i would love them. Driven with the right amp. ; )

You could drive them with 10 watts and it would still be super loud.

 

[tomtoo]

Ok to be in complete audio heaven maybe you would need some 8kw 21“ bandpass subs. ; )

 

[tomtoo]

You could drive them with 10 watts and it would still be super loud.

They would be around 104db. Nah thats nothing. ; )

 

[Thomas savage]

They would be around 104db. Nah thats nothing. ; )

I fart louder than that .

 

[tomtoo]

I fart louder than that .

Not even shure if you can break-in the compression drivers the right way at that level ?