ASR Needs A Power Index on the reviews

[sofrep811]

This would be an easy got to index of all reviews in order of how well the device performed to how badly. I was just checking this site out and they had one and realized ASR did not have listing best to worst.

I'd even create the spreadsheet if needed?

13th Note 2022 DAC Index - 13th Note HiFi Reviews

A DAC Index l major best sounding DACs I have reviewed for 2022, either in written articles or YouTube videos on my channel 13th Note.

www.13thnote.net

 

[sofrep811]

This is an example of their DAC sound quality index. I don't buy it but here it is​

​

DACs in order of Sound Quality:​

1. dCS Bartok – see here
2. Chord DAVE – see here
3. Holo Audio MAY DAC KTE – see here
4. Chord Hugo TT2 – see here
5. PS Audio Directstream – see here
6. Holo Audio Spring 3 DAC level 2 – see here
7. Denafrips Venus II – see here
8. Denafrips Pontus II – see here
9. RME ADI-2 DAC FS – see here
10. Chord Qutest – see here
11. Chord Mojo 2 – see here
12. Denafrips Ares II – see here
13. Cyrus DAC XP Signature (+pre) – now obselete model – see here
14. Musical Fidelity MX-DAC – see here
15. Cambridge DAC Magic 200M – see here
16. Audioquest DragonFly Cobalt – see here
17. Hidizs S9 Pro
18. iFi Zen DAC Ver 2 – see here
19. Audioquest DragonFly Red – see here
20. Audioquest DragonFly black – see here

 

[voodooless]

It’s all there…

Or look at the review index:

Master Audio Review Index

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Hatto]

I also noticed that the ASR review index hasn't been updated with new reviews for quite a long time...

 

[voodooless]

I also noticed that the ASR review index hasn't been updated with new reviews for quite a long time...

The last electronics review is from the 11th of April…

 

[solderdude]

The real question is whether or not that SINAD ranking is really equivalent to sound quality.

To me that ranking only shows that those DACs all have low noise and low distortion at 1kHz near 0dB.
That is ALL it shows, technical performance of a 1kHz signal and noise floor.
Is that equal to 'sound quality' or just 1kHz signal quality ?

 

[voodooless]

The real question is whether or not that SINAD ranking is really equivalent to sound quality.

To me that ranking only shows that those DACs all have low noise and low distortion at 1kHz near 0dB.
That is ALL it shows. Technical performance in those areas.

Well, since most of those DAC’s will sound indistinguishable, talking about sound quality is just silly.

 

[Doodski]

I fear making a list from best sound to worst will make more issues than it will solve. People buying based on that list and then coming back here and causing a fuss.

 

[Hatto]

The last electronics review is from the 11th of April…

Up until a couple weeks ago, the latest DAC review was on August 2022. Now it seems the latest 2 DAC reviews are there, but there's still a huge gap from August 2022 to April 2023.

 

[Hatto]

Just as an example, searching for EverSolo Z8 in the review index returns an empty list:

Although we know that it's been reviewed here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/eversolo-z8-dac-amp-review.41512/ on Jan 30, 2023

 

[solderdude]

Well, since most of those DAC’s will sound indistinguishable, talking about sound quality is just silly.

Yep silly...assuming frequency response, intersample over capabilities, filters etc. all are also on par.
Should we also include longevity, usability, price, VFM, functionality, looks and connectivity to 'select' a best device and in what 'classes' ?

Nah... just review and let people decide for themselves if a device is what they need or are looking for.
Most likely all green and blue DACs sound fine and indistinguishable in blind level matched conditions. Maybe even most orange tier ones as well.

 

[Hatto]

The real question is whether or not that SINAD ranking is really equivalent to sound quality.

To me that ranking only shows that those DACs all have low noise and low distortion at 1kHz near 0dB.
That is ALL it shows, technical performance of a 1kHz signal and noise floor.
Is that equal to 'sound quality' or just 1kHz signal quality ?

Well yes and no but eventually yes (more often than not).

YES, the total SINAD across the frequency range (measuread at fixed output) is the only objective indicator of sound quality for DACs.
NO, SINAD at 1kHz alone is not enough to make that determination.
HOWEVER,
In almost all DAC measurements presented here, you'd find a graph showing the SINAD dependency over the spectrum, like this (red line):

If the line appears to be flat from 20Hz to 20kHz, you can take 1kHz SINAD as the total representaiton of across the frequency range, making the answer YES again.

 

[amirm]

I also noticed that the ASR review index hasn't been updated with new reviews for quite a long time...

Yeh, that is on me. I had bought a new PC and my password for the database didn't carry over so I couldn't log into it! I solved it yesterday and started to update it.

 

[Hatto]

Yeh, that is on me. I had bought a new PC and my password for the database didn't carry over so I couldn't log into it! I solved it yesterday and started to update it.

Glad to hear the issue has been adressed. Thank you for all the hard work you're putting into all this.

 

[VintageFlanker]

This is an example of their DAC sound quality index.

What I do see is products ranked by price. How convenient...

 

[Timcognito]

DACs are not only thing measured. For speakers SINAD is nothing. Charts for each independent category or measurement like the SINAD chart would be helpful. Amir has his hands full with testing and has stated that is what he likes to do.

 

[Hatto]

What I do see is products ranked by price. How convenient...

Plus the lack of diversity among brands is an indicator of a sponsor driven list.

 

[TimF]

It is a big step conceptually to break the bias that price indicates quality. That conditioning has been hammered into us. Get over it.

 

[Oristo]

I was just checking this site out and they had one and realized ASR did not have listing best to worst.

I thought the same until reading Amir's Welcome to the New Review Index!
... then found Master Audio Review Index, then click Audio Electronics in the brown bar
.. which then allows search for e.g. dac and sort by e.g. SINAD:

 

[solderdude]

Well yes and no but eventually yes (more often than not).

YES, the total SINAD across the frequency range (measuread at fixed output) is the only objective indicator of sound quality for DACs.
NO, SINAD at 1kHz alone is not enough to make that determination.
HOWEVER,
In almost all DAC measurements presented here, you'd find a graph showing the SINAD dependency over the spectrum, like this (red line):
View attachment 279310
If the line appears to be flat from 20Hz to 20kHz, you can take 1kHz SINAD as the total representaiton of across the frequency range, making the answer YES again.

An indicator for technical excellence (at 1kHz) is not the same as sound quality though. You would still need to look at all measurements and not just look at the SINAD ranking.
I mean a SINAD 113 DAC can be 'better' than a SINAD 121 DAC in several aspects (say filter) but not in SINAD and that might not matter one bit in the actual heard sound quality. So that would skew the ranking of 'best' in that case.

SINAD is just 1 indicator for technical excellence at 1kHz at (near) full power. That's all. It is a number that is easy to rank and spewed out by the AP. You could just as easily rank max. output voltage, S/N ratio, IM at 19/20kHz or whatnot, filter quality (steepness, cutoff point, attenuation at say 23kHz), intersample-over handling, distortion/clipping at 0dBFS.
Then, from all those rankings you could perhaps put a 'sound quality aspect value' (weighing percentage) on each of those generated numbers and depending on the weighing would be able to get a better 'best signal fidelity' ranking and maybe even include a 'use case' to it such as max. sample rate/DSD/price/VFM/use case.
This too would significantly change the rating lists.
A bit like what Rtings does for headphones use cases.

It won't tell you what you may like/prefer though. That might even be a long way removed from technical excellence.