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Thanks. Seems like a fair price.
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ARTTI T10 - PLANAR IEM
- Thread starter Soandso
- Start date
Thanks. Seems like a fair price.
Zero 2s are great, but they dig into my left ear and become uncomfortable within an hour. Still waiting for my T10s, and hoping the round shape suits my ear more.
I am pretty new to IEM's i.e the kind that one sticks in the ear, and has an audio cable that goes behind the ear. No more than 3 months since I got my 1st IEM. Apologies for repeating anything which is common knowledge.
I have 3 single DD(Dynamic Driver) IEM's from KZ/CCA and while the fault may come from their design/manufacturing quality control, I conclude that the planar magnetic technology is far superior to that of a dynamic driver. The only planar magnetic I own is the T10, and I am unable to enjoy any of the other 3 IEMs I own - which are all single DD's.
The IEM, whichever one, is about 50% of the solution to good quality listening. Fit, i.e proper fit with a good air seal, based on practice, trial and error, insertion depth, insertion technique, and trying out various ear tips with variations in external diameter, and the diameter of the internal bore, are probably another 30% of the solution.
It took me a few weeks to arrive at the best fit for the T10, and choose the right ear tips to get a very good seal. So good that I cannot hold a normal conversation with anyone while wearing the IEMs. But once that good seal was attained, then the potential of the T10 was properly revealed with a full spectrum, from deep bass to the highest treble I have ever heard on anything one places on the head. Fantastic sound, but not until a proper seal is achieved.
The other 20% is all sorts of little things like EQ, and crossfeed, which take the sonics to another level - a lot of effort, but worth it. So worth it.
I have given up on any search for dynamic driver IEM's cos the level of resolution I have heard on the T10, in comparison, is on another level. Detail, full frequency from lowest bass to highest treble, authentic natural engaging, precision, and 3 dimensional rendering of the audio. Now the only IEM's and headphones I research, are planar magnetics, and electrostatics(the latter I definitely cannot afford). And am encouraged to research if this technology is also available for normal in room speakers. It has been a revelation, and the best thing I have ever bought in audio (after good DACs and a headphone amplifier). I think the IEM or speaker is the most important piece in the chain.
Unfortunately AmirM has not reviewed any planar magnetic IEM's to my knowledge. But if we extrapolate the results he has measured on planar magnetic Over Ear Headphones, one characteristic of the best planar magnetic OE's is astonishingly low distortion. The dynamic OE headphones also have higher distortion than their planar magnetic alternatives. So layman's conclusion, there is definitely something in the planar magnetics.
It also appears that I'm getting into this at the right time, cos yesterday I discovered that the emergence of planar magnetic IEMs is a fairly recent thing, no more that a few years. So we can expect this to only get better. But if the T10 is an example, what a great start.
EDIT :
Correction. There is one planar magnetic reviewed by AmirM, see link to this posted by mc.god in the next post.
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I actually had read that one, but completely forgot about it. Thanks. Will correct my earlier comment.
I'm sure the MP145 should be a wonderful IEM, but I'm a bit jaded by the lack of consistency in design and manufacturing of certain IEM's and their manufacturers. In my case, I do not have a measuring rig, so I rely on using measurements that others have done, to derive EQ correction, and apply it for a specific listening device.
It's a practice I started from the time I used speakers predominantly to listen to audio - with a measurement microphone, etc, etc. But for headphones, I do not have my own measurement rig. Its a bit involved, cos IEMs and Headphones have different measuring rigs, so a bit more added cost if I wanted to do my own measurements like AmirM.
I bought two IEM's the KZ ZVX, and the CCA CRA, as my starter IEM's only to discover that their had been revisions, and mine were the revisions, which did not match any of the published measurements available in the public domain, cos all of these were measurements taken of these IEM models, prior to the revisions I bought. Therefore I could not reliably make any corrections, based on EQ, at least not anything specific, only broad tonal changes, cos any other effort was a waste of time.
WIth the T10, because there has been no known manufacturing deviation, I am able to trust the measurements that are in the public domain and use them as a starting point to derive EQ based correction, and the results of this approach have been a notable improvement.
Unfortunately the MP 145 is also one of those IEM's which have been involved in a controversy, and have been revised. So if I was attempting to correct them, I would not have an accurate starting point from which to derive a correction. I.e if I bought an MP 145 today, I would have no clue what the frequency response was, cos it has changed from the publicly available measurements.
This video gives some more details of the revision. And that would be a caveat for anyone who does not have their own IEM frequency response measurement rig.
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I find the t10 easier to get a good seal but with 3rd party tips.
I'm using the largest of the stock silicon white with a black nozzle grip on the inside ear tips. They are probably a bit too large for my ears, but on the plus side, they provide a non nonsense seal, I can shake my head, eat, talk move around, and no risk of them falling out. The ear tips just hold them in place.
I'd love to try out 3rd party tips, but to a newbie like me, I'm a bit exhausted from the rabbit holes, and multiple purchases, I have had to make with DAC dongles, IEM's, Cables, to pick the right one. (I had to purchase new non-microphone cables for one IEM, cos the stock cables which had a microphone, did not work for listening to the headphone output of a digital piano.
I've looked at 3rd party ear tips, but there are so many out there, kinda not easy to whittle it down, to what's best. So many different sizes, and IEM nozzles do not have a standard diameter, so just so much to take into consideration. And a bit tired of trial and error.
The stock approach of providing only three sizes can be a bit limiting. I am reminded that at the upper end of the IEM market, are custom mouldings, and custom fittings, which would also address any variations between left and right ears, guaranty a much better fit, but that's a whole different segment., costing a lot more money.
Was doing some thinking about the power requirements. While one would not be expected to listen at 120dB SPL, just to be absolutely sure that the headphone amp is NOT limiting the audio quality, I've used 120dB as the requirement. I've used 17 ohms, just to be absolutely sure that any variance from the specified 16.5 ohms (+/- 1% variance) is well taken care of.
Just to be sure, that the headphone amp is NOT the limiting factor, I'd say one needs a beefy dongle DAC, at the very least. To ensure there is enough headroom, for anything.
Together with info from these pages, I get the impression that @ 32 ohms I'm getting a maximum of 137 milliwatts @ 33 ohms (which is pretty close to 280 divided by 2 - 280 milliwatts is what is specified by the manufacturer of the DAC dongle), per channel balanced, from a TempoTec Sonata BHD (same specs as the BHD Pro). The single ended/unbalanced headphone output, delivers less power, so ideally the T10 on dongles, would be better paired with balanced cables and a balanced headphone output, especially with DAC dongles.
www.tempotec.net
www.audiosciencereview.com
I have no idea how much power will be put out by this DAC/Headphone amp @ 16 ohms. Looks like the T10 may need a bit of power to get the best from them, more than some dongles are capable of providing, with headroom to spare.
Just to be sure, that the headphone amp is NOT the limiting factor, I'd say one needs a beefy dongle DAC, at the very least. To ensure there is enough headroom, for anything.
Together with info from these pages, I get the impression that @ 32 ohms I'm getting a maximum of 137 milliwatts @ 33 ohms (which is pretty close to 280 divided by 2 - 280 milliwatts is what is specified by the manufacturer of the DAC dongle), per channel balanced, from a TempoTec Sonata BHD (same specs as the BHD Pro). The single ended/unbalanced headphone output, delivers less power, so ideally the T10 on dongles, would be better paired with balanced cables and a balanced headphone output, especially with DAC dongles.
Sonata BHD
Sonata BHD is a portable USB C dongle DAC and Amplifier; DAC: 2*CS43131 SNR: 131dB 3 Gain Level THD+N: 0.00012%(@32ohm 1kHz 0dB signal ) OUTPUT LEVEL: [email protected]/32Ω,[email protected]/32Ω OUTPUT POWER: [email protected]/32ohm Frequency: 0-40KHZ /+- 0.5dB RGB light: indicates working status PCM: up to...
www.tempotec.net
TempoTec Sonata BHD Pro Portable DAC & Amp Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the TempoTec Sonata BHD Pro portable DAC and headphone amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $70. I really like the fresh look of the BHD. There is a red LED that lights up the tiny ICs in there, giving it some elegance. There...
www.audiosciencereview.com
I have no idea how much power will be put out by this DAC/Headphone amp @ 16 ohms. Looks like the T10 may need a bit of power to get the best from them, more than some dongles are capable of providing, with headroom to spare.
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Watched this Youtube, and it gave me a bit of a hint. What's the impact of the dongle gain, on the sonic result.
I did my best to compare the highest and lowest gain on the TempoTec Sonata BHD DAC dongle. This dongle has three gain settings, low, medium and high. Unless I was using a tool, its hard to be exact about the level, cos I'm basing this on my listening. At all times the level setting is set to max on the dongle, in either low or high gain.
So I set it to low gain on the dongle, then increase the volume from my computer - digitally
And compare this to
High gain on the dongle, and reduce the volume from the computer - digitally - to what I perceive to be the same volume.
This is subjective opinion obviously, but it seems to sound even more detailed when feeding the T10's on high gain, from the TempoTec Sonata BHD DAC - more defined bass, crisper mid range, and even the high end is crisper. This change does not sound like a change in EQ, but an improvement in definition.
I did not expect this, not at all. Could be my own subjective opinion, but clearly gain seems to have an impact on the result. More alive, almost a bit too alive and intimate. Will take a while to get used to this. Furthermore the stereo perspective seems even wider, easier to hear the stereo placement, of the voice in this video, when the gain is on the high setting on the dongle.
I am a bit shocked about this, cos I did not expect to hear any difference. And this is one more optimisation to getting the best quality from a listening device. Does make me wonder, how much effort do most reviewers of IEM's devote to setting up their IEMs or headphones properly, cos the impression of an IEM can be so dependant on this, as I am discovering. One more issue to take care of, before blaming the IEM.
From my experience, I would definitely, from now on recommend running balanced, and high gain, and it appears that one needs headphone outputs that can deliver proper 4 volts VRMS, or more. cos this was the common denominator for the dongles in the video which the presenter in the video gave positive opinions of. (I went to check their specs - hope I'm not wrong about this!)
I did my best to compare the highest and lowest gain on the TempoTec Sonata BHD DAC dongle. This dongle has three gain settings, low, medium and high. Unless I was using a tool, its hard to be exact about the level, cos I'm basing this on my listening. At all times the level setting is set to max on the dongle, in either low or high gain.
So I set it to low gain on the dongle, then increase the volume from my computer - digitally
And compare this to
High gain on the dongle, and reduce the volume from the computer - digitally - to what I perceive to be the same volume.
This is subjective opinion obviously, but it seems to sound even more detailed when feeding the T10's on high gain, from the TempoTec Sonata BHD DAC - more defined bass, crisper mid range, and even the high end is crisper. This change does not sound like a change in EQ, but an improvement in definition.
I did not expect this, not at all. Could be my own subjective opinion, but clearly gain seems to have an impact on the result. More alive, almost a bit too alive and intimate. Will take a while to get used to this. Furthermore the stereo perspective seems even wider, easier to hear the stereo placement, of the voice in this video, when the gain is on the high setting on the dongle.
I am a bit shocked about this, cos I did not expect to hear any difference. And this is one more optimisation to getting the best quality from a listening device. Does make me wonder, how much effort do most reviewers of IEM's devote to setting up their IEMs or headphones properly, cos the impression of an IEM can be so dependant on this, as I am discovering. One more issue to take care of, before blaming the IEM.
From my experience, I would definitely, from now on recommend running balanced, and high gain, and it appears that one needs headphone outputs that can deliver proper 4 volts VRMS, or more. cos this was the common denominator for the dongles in the video which the presenter in the video gave positive opinions of. (I went to check their specs - hope I'm not wrong about this!)
I had an issue where there was a significant sudden, very noticeable channel imbalance, with the T10 (between left and right), so to check if it was my own ears which had the level imbalance, I plugged in the KZ ZVX, into the 3.5mm port of the same dongle - TempoTec Sonata BHD. Same imbalance.
Then plugged the KZ ZVX into another dongle, Apple dongle, channel imbalance was gone. So deduced that the TempoTec Sonata BHD was introducing a channel imbalance. Unplugged the BHD from the computer, plugged it back in, and the channel imbalance was gone.
Let's just say, I am shocked. Could not imagine a dongle could behave like this. I would have been blaming the T10 all along for this channel imbalance. Pretty shocked that something in the DSP of the dongle could have such a flaw in it. Wonders will never end.
Then plugged the KZ ZVX into another dongle, Apple dongle, channel imbalance was gone. So deduced that the TempoTec Sonata BHD was introducing a channel imbalance. Unplugged the BHD from the computer, plugged it back in, and the channel imbalance was gone.
Let's just say, I am shocked. Could not imagine a dongle could behave like this. I would have been blaming the T10 all along for this channel imbalance. Pretty shocked that something in the DSP of the dongle could have such a flaw in it. Wonders will never end.
Jole
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I am in dillema t10 or hexa for jazz...mainly...one member recommended me hexa...I wait one more opinion from here to conclude.. artti is cheaper slightly and has good reputation from some people on forum. I would like to know what people with experiance think- ergonomy is important but would not like to open duscussion...so just sound.
herr.jemine
Active Member
Simgot EW300 DSP is the new Budget King , Jazz sounds first class with it, actually everything sounds first class with it.
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Are you going to use eq ?
For Jazz, I'm very happy with Fiio/Jade JD7, Sennheiser IE200, Ikko OH300 and Kefine Delci as long as you have them matched with the proper eartips, ARTTI T10 is a bit "lean" and "thin"...
In the ultra budget department, I like Truthear Zero Blue (not very comfortable though), 7Hz Salnotes Zero 2 and KBear Rosefinch. YMMV.
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Lets talk about the two.
Moondrop Hexa has a single dynamic driver + 3 balanced armatures, per earpiece. You are getting a lot of product for the price.
Artti T10 is planar magnetic.
I have never heard the Moondrop Hexa, but own an Artti T10.
Fundamentally it's about what you want. I think Moondrop is a highly respected IEM manufacturer and based on reputation alone, I do not think they would put out a headphone that is bad. So suggest you have a read of a few reviews from many sources.
My suggestion is also - do not think of price, cos the price between them is not like a $60 difference, I think. Both of them are in the below $100 price bracket.
You may also want to look at the Letshouer S08 which is a well reviewed planar magnetic.
So rather than think of this as a comparison between the T10 and the Hexa, its a comparison between the technologies behind each IEM. Do you want a planar sound, or do you want a Dynamic/Balanced armature sound?
Only you can decide this. I must add though, that the T10 needs to be used with the largest eartip that provides a very good seal, for you. A good seal is non negotiable, to hear the awesome lower frequencies of the T10, which are extremely accurate.
I would consider that the T10, or any other planar magnetic in the under $100 price bracket, such as the S08, would deliver a level of detail and clarity that would be difficult for the Hexa to beat. So ultimately it's about the preference you want.
If its detail - I'd say choose one of the planar magnetics such as the T10 or the S08, or any other in a similar price bracket, such as the new Hidizs MP143, there are about 7 or 8 planar magnetics which will give you a similar clarity, but I can't list all of them, cos I cannot remember all of them, of the top of my head.
If you want a simply balanced but also clear listening experience without the sometimes over the top 3 Dimensional nature of a planar magnetic which can sometimes be hyper-realistic cos of their superior transient response, then the Hexa may be just what you need.
I have counted myself fortunate to own and discover what a planar magnetic can deliver - by owning the Artti T10 - the sonics are stunning. So its a case of what you want. Detail - choose a planar magnetic, Smooth - I'd say choose something with a dynamic driver. There is not really one better than the other, cos it depends on what criteria you prioritise more - Detail or smooth.
The stereo image and left to right soundstage of a planar magnetic is WIDE, really wide, and the 3D presentation of back to front - in a planar magnetic is something special. Ultra realistic. In my case I had to use some crossfeed tools to reduce the extreme stereo width.
Temptation.
I've just been swapping between my best IEM and my best OE Headphone, the Artti T10 - planar magnetic and the AKG K702 - a dynamic, respectively. No contest, for clarity, the T10 has the edge. Must add though, both of them are equalised to their best sonics, using AutoEQ.app.
I do not own a dynamic IEM which I can write home about, so this was the best comparison I could have. For clarity and realism, planar magnetic - any day. The difference is not exactly night and day, but the better the recording, the planar magnetic excels at retrieving that extra quality and detail from recordings that have been executed better. The downside of planar is - it lets you hear everything - good, bad, ugly, without any attempt to cover things up. If its good, you will hear it. If its sub par, it will also reveal clearly any shortcomings in the song/audio.
