Article: Understanding Digital Audio Measurements

[mike7877]

I took this from the SMSL C200 review - 48kHz sample rate, 90kHz measurement bandwidth (consistent with other DAC measurements)

I've been wondering what, exactly, this chart would this look like, if it was done at 48kHz sample rate and 20kHz measurement bandwidth. And 48k BW / 20kHz measurement A-weighted.

Of course it's good to know how much distortion is actually present, but I think the effect of the distortion added by choosing a filter other than 1 or 4 (in C200's case) is overstated by these graphs. I don't know for sure, though, which is why I'm asking.

The C200 with filters 1 & 4, from 20Hz to 10kHz is perfectly flat at -107dB THD+n, while light blue filter 5 is flat to 300Hz at -101.5dB THD+n, then rises to -97dB THD+n by 1.3kHz, remains worse than -100dB THD+n until 16kHz. From 16k to 20k THD+n rises from -97dB to a horrible -40dB...

Normally in my system, I would be able to tell the difference between a DAC that measures distortion flat at -107dB THD+n from 20Hz to 20kHz from a DAC that measures -97dB THD+n from 20Hz to 20kHz at 48kHz sample, and 20kHz measurement bandwidth. I have a feeling, though, that being able to tell the difference between filters 1&4, from filter 5, would be a lot harder.

Edit: to the people who inevitably always have to say "you can't hear the difference between..." in this case -97dB THD+n and -107dB THD+n. My post isn't about that. But I'll say this: you can't hear the difference. And just because you can't do something doesn't mean I (or anyone else) can't do it either! Listening is an ability and a skill which you need to develop and maintain. The difference to me between DACs 10dB apart (with otherwise similar characteristics) isn't night and day, and some tracks I wouldn't be able to tell the difference... but given my library of music and my setup and 10 minutes? I can hear the difference!)

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Hi there! I'd like to share my experiences with DACs and cables via the attached file. I believe that cables can play a role to increase personal audio preferences without a great sacrifice of money, but, of course, I do not have interest to proof it. Having a set of not much than US$ 1,000.00 each component (Sansui AU X911DG Integrated Amplifier, Oppo BDP 105 and Pioneer VSX LX 503 AV Receiver) and, for now, I keep investiments beneath this price range.

 

[DrCWO]

Cable sound, I thought that in between we are beyond that
So many measurements of @amirm proofed that this is snake oil …

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Cable sound, I thought that in between we are beyond that
So many measurements of @amirm proofed that this is snake oil …

He measures a lot, I consider. But listen less. Go also for your ears, not only for a measurement.

 

[DrCWO]

He measures a lot, I consider. But listen less. Go also for your ears, not only for a measurement.

Here happens a lot in the head from the movement of the membrane in your ear to the perception in your brain. This is why blind ABX listening tests were made. Show me one serious scientific ABX publication about cables. I think we all here will be curious…

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Here happens a lot in the head from the movement of the membrane in your ear to the perception in your brain. This is why blind ABX listening tests were made. Show me one serious scientific ABX publication about cables. I think we all here will be curious…

No chances to create discussions about that

 

[LTig]

Hi there! I'd like to share my experiences with DACs and cables via the attached file. I believe that cables can play a role to increase personal audio preferences without a great sacrifice of money, but, of course, I do not have interest to proof it. Having a set of not much than US$ 1,000.00 each component (Sansui AU X911DG Integrated Amplifier, Oppo BDP 105 and Pioneer VSX LX 503 AV Receiver) and, for now, I keep investiments beneath this price range.

Making claims about cable sound and at the same time not wanting to proof it is not a wise statement at ASR. Nobody will believe you.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

Here happens a lot in the head from the movement of the membrane in your ear to the perception in your brain. This is why blind ABX listening tests were made. Show me one serious scientific ABX publication about cables. I think we all here will be curious…

In the 1980s one of the audio magazines did a double blind speaker cable test using zip cord against some of the then new high end cables. No statistically significant difference from a panel of golden ears.

 

[DrCWO]

In the 1980s one of the audio magazines did a double blind speaker cable test using zip cord against some of the then new high end cables.

Would you please share this article. Would be great to see it here. Could be used as a reference whenever discussions like this will pop up.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

In the 1980s one of the audio magazines did a double blind speaker cable test using zip cord against some of the then new high end cables. No statistically significant difference from a panel of golden ears.

If you plant two mango seeds in diferent soils, the fruit of the new trees will taste the same, you meant

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Feels like whack a mole. @fpitas you had a pic somewhere

 

[fpitas]

Feels like whack a mole. @fpitas you had a pic somewhere

Indeed.

 

[Sal1950]

Go also for your ears, not only for a measurement.

The human ear/brain is the worst possible tool you can use to make determinations of sound quality or differences
unless very tight bias controls are put into place. If you even begin to doubt this take a quick shot at the McGurk Effect
video for just a minute or two. Your eyes and bias tell you what you hear.

 

[wwenze]

If you plant two mango seeds in diferent soils, the fruit of the new trees will taste the same, you meant

We know this is not the case

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270174418_Effects_of_Doses_and_Splits_of_Fertilizer_Application_on_Harvesting_Time_Yield_and_Quality_of_Mango_CV_Amrapali

 

[MLaranjeiras]

If you plant two mango seeds in diferent soils, the fruit of the new trees will taste the same, you meant

We know this is not the case

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270174418_Effects_of_Doses_and_Splits_of_Fertilizer_Application_on_Harvesting_Time_Yield_and_Quality_of_Mango_CV_Amrapali

And diamond and mineral coal are pure carbon material, they say. I just feel free to not discard possibilities, without spend much money, of course.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Making claims about cable sound and at the same time not wanting to proof it is not a wise statement at ASR. Nobody will believe you.

Well, what happens when you say to the Coca-Cola guy that you rather it on a glass bottle than it on a can? "The stuff is the same!", he claims. Yes, but no.

 

[Sal1950]

Well, what happens when you say to the Coca-Cola guy that you rather it on a glass bottle than it on a can? "The stuff is the same!", he claims. Yes, but no.

Don't take anyone's unsubstantiated subjective impressions.
Buy one of each and sent them in for a in-depth chemical analysis to find out the facts.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Don't take anyone's unsubstantiated subjective impressions.
Buy one of each and sent them in for a in-depth chemical analysis to find out the facts.

About Coca-Cola, this is my personal impression. So with cables. Coca is junk drink, but there is no better to face a pizza. And I do not think that I have to be submitted to the ASR forum judgment because of a good personal sensation when listening my gear using some cables. Note that I also commented about being skeptic about Linear Power Supply. Who knows one day I will have a good surprise about it.

 

[sam_adams]

Coca is junk drink, but there is no better to face a pizza.

There's this beverage, it's been around a while, about twelve thousand years, it's called beer. Pairs very well with pizza.

 

[Sal1950]

About Coca-Cola, this is my personal impression.

I've noticed I sometime get a metallic taste from canned soda but never did a blind test of it.
The can taste may even come from having your mouth on the can?
Have someone pour Solo cups of canned and one of bottled and see if you can ID one from the other reliably 50 times.
And without a chemical analysis it's even possible that coke uses a slightly different formula for different containers from some unknown reason.
Besides all that, Coke is mouthwash, Pepsi is the best cola.