Apple lossless official announcement

[Tom C]

Are you sure the Lightning connector is digital only? Remember those inexpensive white wired earpod, the originals they had before there was ever such a thing as Air Pods? They had a 3.5 mm male connector and used to be included with the purchase of the phone. Well, they are still available, but it’s a $20 accessory, and have a lightning connector so that they’ll work with the current setup. I like them, especially for phone calls, and they sound pretty darn good for what they are, drastic bass roll off aside. They could have a DAC built into them, but the phone still needs an internal DAC in order for its built-in speakers to work, right? So, lightning out could possibly be analog out to those little cheap plastic EarPods, couldn’t it? I mean, I don’t know if it is or isn’t.

 

[hmscott]

Ah wait, now I get it . The Max does not have a 3.5mm it self, only lightning. You are absolutely right. Edited some posts to reflect that.

Then then the FAQ also makes sense. In my head the source would be an iDevice, in such case that cable is useless unless you buy the 9$ Dongle.

Actually that longer cable is $35. Lightning to 3.5 mm Audio Cable (1.2m) - White - Apple

I tried to find an image of the AirPods Max inputs to see what the audio input used is so I could understand the descriptions I was reading, but I did find and post this quote and link to a number of posts of AirPods users that more clearly describe their use:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ing-the-lightning-cable.2281545/post-29539732

WRT the Lightning to MALE 3.5mm cable, it's a DAC and an ADC, it works both ways. If you hook it to the lightning port on an iPhone or an iPad it'll provide an analog stereo output. If you hook it to the lightning port on the AirPods Max it converts an analog stere signal(s) into a digital for processing and playback in the headphones. Unless I'm missing something, the AirPods Max do not have an analog input, unless you count the many microphones it uses for noise cancellation and whatnot.

It seems like there could be a way to get bit-perfect data into the AirPods Max via a USB-lightning cable, or a Lightning-Lightning cable, but Apple doesn't provide that functionality over the USB-lightning cable and they don't offer a Lightning-Lightning cable at all.

That is very interesting, thank you for the first-hand owner report of the Airpods Max + Lightning to 3.5 mm Audio Cable

And, I see Apple is including that cable with the AirPods Max now:
In the Box: AirPods Max - Technical Specifications - Apple

• AirPods Max
• Smart Case
• Lightning to USB-C Cable
• Documentation

I did post this with-in a "Spoiler" but I guess no one opens them
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ing-the-lightning-cable.2281545/post-29539732

LeonPro macrumors 6502a, Jan 24, 2021
"To be honest that's not the best way to get hi-res audio.

I have two AirPods Max and purchased the 3.5mm cable. I collect headphones and have Balanced DAC (digital to analog converter) and headphone amps.

I know people are saying wired is the best way to go which is true for all headphones capable of a direct analog connection. Not the Max.

Here's why:

AirPods Max only takes digital connection. Period. There is no analog input. None.

All audio coming into the Max is digital. It is the built-in DAC of the Max that does the conversion to it's speakers. There is no by-passing it.

Apple offers the 3.5mm cable as a matter of convenience for those who want it. That's the reason why they didn't include the cable in the package. They don't encourage doing it.

Here's what happens.

(1) Your electronic device converts digital signal to analog to the 3.5mm port.

(2) And then that 3.5mm to Lightning cable takes that analog signal and turns it back into digital.

(3) The AirPods Max takes that digital signal and turns it into analog for the speakers.

That's one too many conversions than a simple straight digital signal from your computer/iPhone/iPad fed to your AirPods Max directly.

The cable is good for Airplane travel. That's it. If you have to use the cable at home, I would use it with a DAC and use the pre-amp output. Not the variable headphone jack.

Until Apple builds an direct analog input, the best sound you can get is via AAC digital wireless input. The AirPods Max knows how to decode it and bring it back to sounding full."

I also have yet to find a photo of the AirPods Max that shows the Input port or whatever else is around that region. Apple's Product page for the Airpods Max is a work of Art, but fails in any useful way for showing all the angles of the surface area of the device, I can't find a photo of the input port(s) - power and audio inputs I assume are there - AirPods Max - Apple - they must be hiding them?

And, again this is the absurdity of the Airpods Max, and the ADC/DAC and DAC cables from Apple, those original Apple Music Lossless Data streams are torn asunder never to resemble their original pristine recordings.

Apple Audio is a Joke. A Sad, and increasingly more ludicrous Absurdity. Where do Apple think they are going with their expensive foray into Apple Lossless Music? Does Apple really never intend to make Apple Lossless Music useful to their own Apple Customers?

 

[Kalessin]

Apple Audio is a Joke. A Sad, and increasingly more ludicrous Absurdity. Where do Apple think they are going with their expensive foray into Apple Lossless Music? Does Apple really never intend to make Apple Lossless Music useful to their own Apple Customers?

In the immortal words of Liberace: “When the reviews are bad, I tell my staff that they can join me as I cry all the way to the bank.”

 

[leonidas]

Apple Audio is a Joke. A Sad, and increasingly more ludicrous Absurdity. Where do Apple think they are going with their expensive foray into Apple Lossless Music? Does Apple really never intend to make Apple Lossless Music useful to their own Apple Customers?

I am now using the Airpods Max along with my „audiophile“ gear and they are absolutely great. I couldn’t care less about how lossless or not the songs are because the AMax aren’t very detailed or offer a lot of resolution etc. But they just sound good, nice tuning out of the box, easy to listen to and the spatial audio feature is awesome when well implemented. I see zero value of „lossless“ with these headphones.

The Airpods Max even make my old tracks with sometimes bad recordings enjoyable again for me and the noise cancellation feature with these is out of this world. Much better than the Sonys…

 

[KeithPhantom]

People are trying to listen differences in electronics at least -80 dBFS from the fundamental with transducers that struggle to have a SINAD of 60 dB between 20-20,000 Hz. Masking and intermodulation exist.

I don’t care how many A-D or D-A conversions are there, but I’m a sure that I would fail a double-blind between that chain vs. a “cleaner” chain.

 

[voodooless]

Finally got the Apple Music desktop app to play Atmos. As others mentioned you'll only get the Atmos track if you have headphones connected. Which I had, however, that was via SoundSource. In that case it turns out, it does not play the Atmos version every. Selecting the headphones directly however did the trick. It also mutes the sound if you do the switch, which was why I didn't hear anything at first.. Still don't know why this would differ from song to song though..

So first one is though SoundSource, second is direct playback to the headphones:

Notice that this list does not include all my playback devices. I have crappy speakers in my monitor via USB-C, an old Edirol interface, and I also tried my E30. none of these show up. For some reason however, Apple can exclusively play on the Bluetooth headphones. This seems like a curious shortcomming. They could just add the other DAC's to the list, and make them work with automatic sample rate switching like the others do.

 

[Zensō]

 

[sweetchaos]

Thanks.

Nothing new to report here...Darko just did a just a quick overview of the process.

 

[MaxBuck]

The irony of this Apple Music thread is that it has me seriously considering getting a pair of Sony WH-1000XM4s.

 

[Katji]

The irony of this Apple Music thread is that it has me seriously considering getting a pair of Sony WH-1000XM4s.

There was something about that in MacRumors a few days ago...
Sony's New WF-1000XM4 Earbuds vs. Apple's AirPods Pro

 

[MaxBuck]

There was something about that in MacRumors a few days ago...
Sony's New WF-1000XM4 Earbuds vs. Apple's AirPods Pro

Different hardware.

The WH-1000XM4s are over-the-ear headphones rather than earbuds. I have plenty of earbuds already, none of which are for serious music listening.

 

[Blaspheme]

... Nothing new to report here...Darko just did a just a quick overview of the process.

Something new from Darko's letters page: you can coax* playback of the Atmos headphone track from a Mac and play it via an external DAC over loudspeakers.

*edit: forgot the audience: gently persuade ... not coaxial

The solution is to create a Multi-Output Device using the Audio MIDI Setup and link your DAC with the Mac’s built-in headphone jack. Somehow that triggers Apple Music to pull the Dolby version of the song and play it (provided it is set to Always On in Music playback settings).

Creating a virtual multi-output device basically plays the same sound to every output you select. I had to plug in a pair of headphones for that output to show up, then it worked as described. You get the Atmos 2-channel mix from both the headphones and the speakers (but even with the DAC set to 8-channel mode, there's no selection beyond stereo in speaker setup, which is disappointing but makes sense when you think about it).

I listened to the same tracks I used via headphones per the previous posts, and some more for good measure. The effect is quite obvious and similar to listening on headphones: centre vocals appear a bit further back on the soundstage but without receding so much in the mix—at least on my system—if that makes sense. I had to increase the volume for the Atmos version compared to the regular for similar overall loudness. For Olivia, Norah and Taylor—all decent mixes—it sounded quite good. I preferred it to the regular mixes of the same material. I also tried Iggy, the Stones, YUNGBLOOD and the Lennon/Plastic Ono Band re-master among others. The last was interesting, but keep in mind that none of the spatial material Apple provides so far includes much of anything I would regularly listen to (they stick to the well-worn classics among the older material) so I haven't compared on any familiar material.

A caveat: I had to quit the DSP software I usually run on the Mac, running the same multi-output device via Sonarworks didn't yield Atmos. I'm also guessing that creating an Aggregate Device (which supports regular non-Atmos multi-channel up to 7.1 from the 8 channel DAC) would likewise fail although I haven't tested this—I don't have the rest of a multi-channel system to try in any case.

 

[kuka7]

Hi everyone, has anyone found an easy way to remotely control an iphone connected to a dac using another iphone?
Something like Music on apple tv that can be controlled directly with an iphone without using a monitor.
Thanks!

 

[DimitryZ]

Hi everyone, has anyone found an easy way to remotely control an iphone connected to a dac using another iphone?
Something like Music on apple tv that can be controlled directly with an iphone without using a monitor.
Thanks!

Switch control

 

[kuka7]

Switch control

Theans DimitryZ!
I've read about switch control, but I can't figure out how to do it.
I already control an Apple TV directly from the iphone audio control through the app Music, very intuitive and easy, does switch control work more or less like that too?

 

[DimitryZ]

Theans DimitryZ!
I've read about switch control, but I can't figure out how to do it.
I already control an Apple TV directly from the iphone audio control through the app Music, very intuitive and easy, does switch control work more or less like that too?

I have not used it yet, but from what I read, it involves installing it on both devices, running it on both, designating which is to be controlled and making sure both are on the same network.

 

[Jimbob54]

Are you sure the Lightning connector is digital only? Remember those inexpensive white wired earpod, the originals they had before there was ever such a thing as Air Pods? They had a 3.5 mm male connector and used to be included with the purchase of the phone. Well, they are still available, but it’s a $20 accessory, and have a lightning connector so that they’ll work with the current setup. I like them, especially for phone calls, and they sound pretty darn good for what they are, drastic bass roll off aside. They could have a DAC built into them, but the phone still needs an internal DAC in order for its built-in speakers to work, right? So, lightning out could possibly be analog out to those little cheap plastic EarPods, couldn’t it? I mean, I don’t know if it is or isn’t.

That's how some android do it with their USB C. My onepluses can output analog via a cheap USB c to 3.5mm. I know its not digital to a dac in the cable as USB audio player Pro doesn't recognise a dac when attached.

So you may be right.

 

[kuka7]

I have not used it yet, but from what I read, it involves installing it on both devices, running it on both, designating which is to be controlled and making sure both are on the same network.

That's exactly what I've read too, but in real life I can't get it to work

 

[Jhify]

Has anyone experience Atmos music from apple with a real Atmos system yet ?

I watched this french video youtube.com/watch?v=OszGQzpoIr0 today about Doldy Atmos mixing for music and it really makes me want to try out the experience.

I was considering to switch my stereo setup to the Sonos Amp to stream apple music seamlessly, but now I'm thinking it might be worth to spend the extra money on an apple tv + a Denon ARV to be able to experience Atmos mixes in the futur as they become more available.

 

[abdo123]

I was considering to switch my stereo setup to the Sonos Amp to stream apple music seamlessly, but now I'm thinking it might be worth to spend the extra money on an apple tv + a Denon ARV to be able to experience Atmos mixes in the futur as they become more available.

This is the most fail-proof way of experiencing the atmos mixes on Apple music, I'm planing on getting an Apple TV too.