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Anyone see this train wreck in Stereophile?

sq225917

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When a speaker company charges $3500 for veneer you know there soaking you for there plywood speakers.
That would depend on the veneer and application. Box speakers single colour, no inlay, spray finish and machine polish, yup it's a gip. Hand french polished multiple wood inlay a'la definitive audio monster horns I'd expect to pay multiple of that for hundreds of hours work.


I see voltage charge $1000 for premium veneers.
 

Alexanderc

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Correct.
You don’t know.
You have no know clue until you’ve heard Volti or any other speaker. Troglodyte you the mantra.
8 years of ownership playing every possible genre from small scale to large, acoustic to electronic realistically is a tribute to these fine speakers.
That ASR stupidly disses anyone who offers a different take on the hobby, smells like religious zealots.
As I’ve discovered, you and your cohorts on this site spew your dogma over the human experience, having no idea that you are the ones limited by your narrow primitive reliance on your “measurements”, DICTATING, without evidence, how electronics and speakers will sound without even making the effort to hear them. The definition of lazy. The activity of cultism.
The irony of this makes me chuckle. If you like the speakers, great! That’s fabulous and I wish you many happy hours of listening to the speakers you love. But if you come to a science and engineering focused forum and criticize the members for paying attention to science and engineering, you can’t expect a warm, accommodating welcome.
 

Dialectic

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I heard Volti speakers before I read the Toole book or bothered to learn anything about audio science.

Even then I could tell that the design was broken.
 

BDWoody

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sarumbear

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Mart68

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It starts with:

Which is illegal in the EU and the UK. Distance selling act demands sellers to offer return with full refund.
Unless the item is bespoke. For example if you ordered curtains to a specific length, you would not be able to return them under the distance selling regs.

Whether these speakers would qualify as bespoke would be a matter for the Courts, but since they seem to be built to order with specific owner-selected finish that might be enough to class them as bespoke.
 

Spkrdctr

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And as promised, here is the manufacturers response on the Volti Audio Rival:


Volti Rival
Editor:
Thank you for a well-written article, Ken Micallef. I’m glad you had fun with the Rival speakers. Thank you, John Atkinson. I know how much work it was to do those measurements, and I have to say that they look very similar to mine. A couple of things to note:
First, regarding John’s discovery of the elevated tweeter and woofer response in relation to the midrange: I supply a resistor kit with each pair of Rival speakers, and if the end user wishes to flatten out the frequency response of the speaker by raising the output of the midrange, it is easily done. Also related to this, the adjustment that KM referred to with the midrange was to turn it down a bit more from the factory setting. Interesting, heh?
Second, I put extensive time into figuring out how much bracing and damping I wanted to put into the cabinet. I found that too much bracing/damping killed the musicality of the speaker, and too little made things busy and noisy. I know we are all “trained” to believe that there should be no cabinet resonances. My experience in listening to music with speakers that are overdamped says otherwise. There’s a fine line here.
I can’t think of a more conspicuous example of how speaker measurements simply do not portray how a speaker sounds than the dichotomy between KM’s review and JA’s testing. But this example goes beyond that, because here we have accurate measurements that illustrate exactly how the designer intended the speaker to sound.
My concern isn't that the measurements published here reflect poorly on the design, or what effect that may or may not have on my business; it's that we have now exposed to our industry some of the ways I accomplish my goals of building speakers that sound the way they do.
There’s a sound in my head that I’m chasing, and getting that sound out of a new speaker design is the most important aspect of the design to me. Speaker performance measurements are very important during the development, and I measure constantly as I’m working out the final voicing of the speaker. But after the design is done, the final measurements are of little value to me. When a design is complete and I’m happy with all aspects of it, I would certainly not change anything about it that would change the sound only for the sake of improving the measured performance.
Knowing how they measure doesn’t change how they sound, but I believe that changing the design so that they measure better would. I don’t have one single customer who would accept changes in the sound of their speakers for the sake of better measurements.
I have lots more to say on this subject, but I’ll save it for my newsletter.
I think John said it best in his summary: “‘Listen for yourself.’” In-home Rival demos are available.
Greg Roberts Volti Audio
Subjectivist claptrap! Sheesh, going on 70 years of this thinking. It still abounds in our audio world. What measures crappy will ALWAYS be crappy. You can't fix major speaker problems with wires, tubes or other equipment. "Listen for yourself" is always the idea because your brain covers up so many flaws and bad design decisions. A cheap pair of speakers that measure poorly can sound good, until you switch to some known good measuring speakers and then you notice the difference. The brain is your enemy in audio! But your friend everywhere else :)
 

Spkrdctr

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If they truly do reproduce a piano with realism as the designer states, they must be doing something right. In my listening experience, realistic level piano reproduction is something that eludes most speakers. As the designer also mentioned, recording the piano in the first place with accuracy is a huge issue in itself.

@Blumlein 88 has done a fair bit of acoustic recording IIRC?, he may have something to add.
I am going to say something very heretical now. I found that my Klipsch speakers (NOT the old legend stuff) but 1990's vintage models also reproduced piano very well. I believe it is the horn. Trumpets, saxophone and other instruments just "come alive" and sound great. I know Klipsch speakers generally do not test well, but in the jazz and solo instruments, all the newer good stuff usually sounds very, very good in cases that I described. I find that to get that same instrumental/soloist sound you usually have to at least double the price of what the Klipsch cost. But, then when I see the measurements, I am always disappointed...........I imagine the JBL horns for home audio that Amir has tested probably have that same sound.
 

Robin L

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The irony of this makes me chuckle. If you like the speakers, great! That’s fabulous and I wish you many happy hours of listening to the speakers you love. But if you come to a science and engineering focused forum and criticize the members for paying attention to science and engineering, you can’t expect a warm, accommodating welcome.
Bringing a water pistol to a gunfight.
 

Spkrdctr

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OH MY, I thought you were pointing me to a cool download, he wants $25 for the cd plus whatever for shipping?
What do you think my name is, Savage? :eek: LOL
Sal, just have one of your many girlfriends buy it for you! That is what they are for.........among other things.
 

Spkrdctr

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Except that actual listening tests were the basis for the measurements and their interpretation. A close read of Toole's book might give you a better perspective.
SIY, you did it AGAIN! I was thinking up and outlining my 4 paragraph response with explanations. Then I go to the next post and you condensed down what would have been a way too long post explaining stuff that shouldn't need explaining to TWO SENTENCES!! You sir are my better. When someone at my level meets a true master, I have to give credit where it is due. You are the true master and I'm still at the very good grasshopper level. (Old reference to the 70's TV show Kung Fu with David Carradine)
 

MediumRare

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Correct.
You don’t know.
You have no know clue until you’ve heard Volti or any other speaker. Troglodyte you the mantra.
8 years of ownership playing every possible genre from small scale to large, acoustic to electronic realistically is a tribute to these fine speakers.
That ASR stupidly disses anyone who offers a different take on the hobby, smells like religious zealots.
As I’ve discovered, you and your cohorts on this site spew your dogma over the human experience, having no idea that you are the ones limited by your narrow primitive reliance on your “measurements”, DICTATING, without evidence, how electronics and speakers will sound without even making the effort to hear them. The definition of lazy. The activity of cultism.
I get it, you’re offended. But just saying "because I say so" is not persuasive here. That doesn’t make it a cult. It does say that measurements, properly taken, are more persuasive here than n=1 opinions. If you can’t agree with that then you will not get value from this community.
 

Spkrdctr

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And listening is not the final arbiter to determine whether a product has been engineered to one's liking. There is no inherent connection between listening and engineering. Engineering, if done well, is the same today as it is tomorrow, next year and ten years from now. Our hearing changes with age, different rooms, mood and background noise. So a speaker and low-wattage tube amp that you absolutely love here today might turn out to be something you dislike next year in a different room with higher levels of background noise.

The real problem here is that you praise engineering, yet hold to a subjectivist hierarchy that feeds the scam artists, snake oil salesmen and con men. You are free to choose whatever you wish for yourself, but please don't subsidize the predators.

Jim Taylor
Our hearing changes with age, different rooms, mood and background noise. So a speaker and low-wattage tube amp that you absolutely love here today might turn out to be something you dislike next year in a different room with higher levels of background noise.

The real problem here is that you praise engineering, yet hold to a subjectivist hierarchy that feeds the scam artists, snake oil salesmen and con men.


My goodness! Those are serious words of wisdom. I wish I could pin them so everyone who comes to this sight could read them. Great job!
 

sq225917

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Once again, we fall into the trope that implies anyone who likes anything that measures poorly is making a wrong choice. They aren't, some people buy fro exemplary measured performance, some don't. Neither is more wrong or right than the other choice unless people claim to be buying on one parameter, but aren't.

Papermill says he likes how they sound, and he's right. That doesnt mean his opinion of owning them has any validity beyond his personal preference, it doesn't. Likewise poor measurements don't mean he's wrong.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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Correct.
You don’t know.
You have no know clue until you’ve heard Volti or any other speaker. Troglodyte you the mantra.
8 years of ownership playing every possible genre from small scale to large, acoustic to electronic realistically is a tribute to these fine speakers.
That ASR stupidly disses anyone who offers a different take on the hobby, smells like religious zealots.
As I’ve discovered, you and your cohorts on this site spew your dogma over the human experience, having no idea that you are the ones limited by your narrow primitive reliance on your “measurements”, DICTATING, without evidence, how electronics and speakers will sound without even making the effort to hear them. The definition of lazy. The activity of cultism.
Sounds like being here is causing you distress. It may not be worth it. Does Volti have a community forum? Might be worth checking out.
 

Old Listener

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Correct.
You don’t know.
You have no know clue until you’ve heard Volti or any other speaker. Troglodyte you the mantra.
8 years of ownership playing every possible genre from small scale to large, acoustic to electronic realistically is a tribute to these fine speakers.
That ASR stupidly disses anyone who offers a different take on the hobby, smells like religious zealots.
As I’ve discovered, you and your cohorts on this site spew your dogma over the human experience, having no idea that you are the ones limited by your narrow primitive reliance on your “measurements”, DICTATING, without evidence, how electronics and speakers will sound without even making the effort to hear them. The definition of lazy. The activity of cultism.
Translation: "How dare you call my baby ugly!"
 

MattHooper

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One issue with speakers like this Volti is that they will dictate the choice of programme. Some recordings may be artificially enhanced, some may be rendered unlistenable.

The same could be said of neutral/accurate speakers.

Given the biggest variable in terms of sonic quality are the recordings themselves, neutral speakers will "tell you the truth" about awful recordings...by showing how awful they sound.

There is often an implicit or explicit stance, used by those who purchase based on "accuracy first," that speakers that depart from a certain measurement paradigm, that are colored in some way, will be a source of dissatisfaction. Yet audiophiles have found satisfaction, some quite long lasting, from speaker designs of all types, including many that would be rejected by most ASR members.

*(Certainly we have the work by Toole et all about how certain speaker measurements generally predict scores in their blind tests. It's great that data exists and totally reasonable if an individual wants to use that data to guide his own purchase. However, the extent to which that actually translates in to predicting user satisfaction in the "real world" doesn't seem to exist at this point, and the number of audiophiles deriving long term satisfaction from a wide array of speaker types suggests it might not. That's the messiness of life for you).
 
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