Any Known Apple AirPlay 2 Sound Quality Issues?

[mononoaware]

For me, both toslink and analog work flawless on 7.6.x firmware and both have those crackles/static on 7.8.x, so the issue my files above show there are issues with the analog output as well. That crackling is much more noticeable on some music via headphones.

That is a concern if the analog output is affected as well.
I am pretty sure the A1392 is officially no longer supported by Apple (they are distancing themselves from it and want you to think of it as a non-apple device).

To be fair I have only listened to the A1392 through speakers, edit: and always used an iOS device (phone) to AirPlay to the A1392.
And when I tested the analog output I just listened to a few songs for about 15 mins, and since the severe "glitches" of the optical output were simply not there I did assume at the time that it was working perfectly.

Even if I had another DAC to try it with, based on previous experience with the extremely poor jitter performance I would expect sub-par performance in general and would rather get rid of the A1392.

It may be audibly flawless for you on 7.6.x firmware, but measurements of the A1392's optical output with the most recent firmwares would likely show poor results (basically I think your DAC is doing a decent job of re-clocking the jitter).

From memory, the "flawless" old firmware started with a 6.x.x.

With a company the size of Apple, you'd expect them to have a rigorous test setup for software releases that would catch these things. It's a real shame, since with good firmware, it's a great device; frustrating that they're so close.

My suspicions now lie towards the dual "3.5mm analog + Mini-toslink" output component.
If the issues have small variances with the output (both optical and analog), I think the "quality" of the component in question was poor and its performance is affected by minor changes in the firmware.

Try using the analog output on 7.8.x with some solo piano music and listen via headphones. I'm curious if playback would be crackle free for you (if possible, try with the song I linked above).

Maybe I would hear the "crackling" if I listened with headphones, I would say the chances are high since the optical output had severe issues but I have already "Factory Reset" the A1392 and it is sitting in the closet waiting to be given to someone.
My experience is the A1392 is "broken" with optical (with all available firmwares) so I have very little interest in setting it up again. . .

The issue with optical output was severe, I would experience "gaps" every 10-20 seconds and the parts that would play would be full of obvious artefacts.
The issues with every available firmware I tried were exactly the same (no improvements and no degradation).

 

[mononoaware]

I should note, I have two A1392 manufactured years apart (June 2014 and September 2015), and both units exhibit the same behavior. In my testing, it didn't matter if I used WiFi or ethernet, the results were the same.

Most likely then that it is an issue with all A1392.

I would say my example is as close as it gets to being "brand-new".
It was purchased then sat in it's box unused for many years before it's alternate functions were discovered.

Since some may think these issues would be understandable if it had been used as a "WiFi extender" and plugged in for years on end.
This is not the case in my example.

Also, as noted above, the source did make a difference. There was less crackling when I Airplayed from iTunes on my Windows machine than when I did it from my iphone or ipad. In addition to Apple Music on my iPhone, I used Spotify as well, with the same results.


Yes, I would agree the Airplay protocol is likely not the issue here, just firmware bugs with the Airport Express.

In all my tests/examples I used an iOS device (portable/phone) sending AirPlay to the A1392.
I remember troubleshooting to the point of "factory restoring iphone" then just re-syncing all ALAC audio files to the phone.
All the issues remained, the issue is definitely within the A1392 Airport Express.

 

[oryan_dunn]

Most likely then that it is an issue with all A1392.

I would say my example is as close as it gets to being "brand-new".
It was purchased then sat in it's box unused for many years before it's alternate functions were discovered.

Since some may think these issues would be understandable if it had been used as a "WiFi extender" and plugged in for years on end.
This is not the case in my example.



In all my tests/examples I used an iOS device (portable/phone) sending AirPlay to the A1392.
I remember troubleshooting to the point of "factory restoring iphone" then just re-syncing all ALAC audio files to the phone.
All the issues remained, the issue is definitely within the A1392 Airport Express.

I seemed to measure well here and I wonder what firmware version he tested with:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm

Do you have a link to newer measurements?

The upcoming Belkin unit is essentially a very expensive AirPlay 2 version of a Chromecast Audio. I guess Apple users are used to the Apple tax, hopefully it will be technically correct.
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/24/belkin-soundform-connect-airplay-2/

 

[mononoaware]

I seemed to measure well here and I wonder what firmware version he tested with:
https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm

It was that review which informed me about the A1392’s ability of being a wireless audio streamer.

Quote from review: “Signals are from the CBS CD-1 test CD as transferred into iTunes as an ALC (Apple Lossless) file, and played via iTunes from a Mac Pro in iTunes 11.1.5 in OS 10.9.4 over a Wi-Fi connection from a much larger home network”.

Yes unfortunately they don’t mention the A1392 firmware version.

While I remember 6.x.x being mentioned as the “best” firmware for the optical output, I think they discovered it by going down the list just like I did.
So there may be more than 1 good past firmware.

I would assume every firmware below the “golden” 6.x.x probably also has good performance.

Do you have a link to newer measurements?

No sorry.
I think all examples of the A1392 will have this issue though, so hopefully someone who has one and the necessary knowledge and equipment will be able to measure the optical output.
(But it may be a tedious process of measuring all available firmware versions)

The upcoming Belkin unit is essentially a very expensive AirPlay 2 version of a Chromecast Audio. I guess Apple users are used to the Apple tax, hopefully it will be technically correct.
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/02/24/belkin-soundform-connect-airplay-2/

Thanks for sharing this. I was unaware such a product was in the pipeline.

 

[Alexanderc]

Hmmmm… I just today bought a used AE 1392. Hadn’t heard about this issue. I guess I’ll hope it comes with the old firmware and I just won’t upgrade.

I got my airport express yesterday. One evening of use with analog out and I heard some sort of static sound twice, and extremely briefly. In 3 or 4 hours this was a total of about 1 second of crackling noise. I can easily live with that. This is with the most recent firmware.

The thing that really bothers me is the constant drops. I had to either reset or reconnect at least 10 times in 3 or 4 hours. I read something about changing the IPV6 settings, but if anyone here has a way to fix it, that would be helpful.

 

[Wes]

your wifi is weak at that location - time to move something around or buy a new router

 

[Alexanderc]

your wifi is weak at that location - time to move something around or buy a new router

Wifi should be fine. It’s in my home office and I have no issues sitting on zoom meetings for several hours a day in that room.

 

[IchAlex]

Can only confirm the reports on the glitches using optical.

 

[mononoaware]

I thought to add, with the optical output from Apple TV 3 I do experience the odd "static" once every maybe 100-200 hours of listening.
It is kind of like a brief "pop" you would expect to hear from a needle on vinyl, and I only hear it once in many listening sessions apart.
It is so infrequent I just concluded it is the odd "glitch" which comes with using WiFi (a couple bits of data error or something).
WiFi is using a mesh system with great signal strength.
So WiFi signal strength is not an issue, it is probably just a compromise of using WiFi instead of Ethernet connection (cable).

Also forgot to mention that the Apple TV 3 is "locked" at 16 bit / 48khz sample rate.
As I understand it all AirPlay data transmission defaults to 16 bit / 44.1khz, so the ATV3 is resampling it to 48khz which in my experience sounds absolutely fine.

 

[Jazz]

I have never had any any audio problems with Airplay or Airplay 2. I have used it on various Airport Express 2 both when it was v1 and now v2. I also have used it with an AVR that has it built in and on two portable speakers with it built in.
I also use it with Apple TV 4 and 4K and with an Apple TV2.
Of all the wireless or wired music streaming options I tried or have over many years, it has been the most consistent, reliable, and cleanest audio.
The only problems have been with third party bad wires (especially 3.5mm lines) or bad stereo components. But that is not the Airport or Airplay.
If you buy a used AE2 you may need to do a factory reset, despite the firmware update to v2. This fixes any and all issues, if you have a used one.

 

[mononoaware]

If you buy a used AE2 you may need to do a factory reset,

"Factory reset" was one of the troubleshooting options I performed.
I had purchased it from someone I knew, so I am quite confident of its basically "brand-new" condition.

My main comments and experiences with it are regarding it's digital (optical/mini-toslink) output.
From my experience it's 3.5mm analog output sounded fine (either that or I did not notice any issue with the audio quality).

I guess some can notice issues with the 3.5mm analog output and other's not. Maybe it depends on how one is listening, possibly critical listening on headphones is required to hear the audio quality issues (artefacts) with the analog 3.5mm output.

In terms of the optical output, as I said previously the audio cutting in and out happened so often that it was terrible and broken.
Nothing else indicated an issue with the product (no random restarts/blinking lights/crashes) and AirPlay stayed connected properly.
I tried every single available firmware and the issue with the optical output remained, and there are many others with the same complaint if you search threads online.

Please understand I troubleshooted the device for hours over 2 or 3 days before I reached this conclusion.

 

[dkinric]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew-updated-dsp-dac-streamer.18681/post-615197
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew-updated-dsp-dac-streamer.18681/post-611248

Amir has commented on Airplay doing funny stuff, providing a less than bit perfect signal. Are these concerns still valid?

 

[tgray]

It’s unclear to me what his exact concerns are. In the one post, he was testing the SHD which uses an open source reverse engineered implementation of Airplay 1. Not saying that the issues observed weren’t real, but there’s not a lot of detail in the report.

In the second link, a statement is made that SINAD is limited to 96 dB, which okay, it’s 16bit. Can’t speak to the timing issue he mentioned.

I’ve been using Airplay 1 and 2 for so long I can’t remember when I started. I’ve never had significant issues with it, as long as the WiFi signal was good. But I’m perfectly happy with CD quality (and frankly high bitrate AAC). I have mostly used it with Apple products, a smattering of Shairport/Raspberry Pi setups, and Sonos. I moved away from the Airport Express setups a few years before they were discontinued.

 

[Jazz]

In this discussion, I think it is important to clarify if one is referring to the Mini-Toslink out or the 3.5mm out with Airport Express for Airplay 2.
While I have not noticed any issues with either, the Mini-Toslink is, well, Toslink. So, that would be something to consider.
If you go strait from the Airport Express via 3.5 mm to RCA, I have not noticed any issues. I also have run it 3.5 to 3.5 female at the amp too with no issues. I have not noticed any with Toslink either but, I know some have problems with Toslink. But that is Toslink or possibly a DAC issue. Not Airplay.

 

[mononoaware]

But that is Toslink or possibly a DAC issue.

Yes but important to clarify regarding the "DAC" some DAC's have a higher tolerance with an optical source’s poor jitter performance (some even have an adjustable setting for this called DPLL from memory).
Some DAC's have this high jitter tolerance as the "fixed" setting.

From what I have gathered there are also Airport Express A1392 users using Mini-toslink output who state there is no issue with the signal.
These users I assume must be using a DAC with a high tolerance for the poor jitter performance of A1392, and at least the DAC is able to keep a lock in the signal (no dropouts).

In my experience just like a device which is sensitive to picking up/amplifying noise in a system, if the possibility of issue is there, I must recommend against using the device.

Not Airplay.

Yes I agree AirPlay is not the issue here, in my experience it has a solid connection and functions as it should.
The issue is with the components inside the Airport Express, I suspect the dual 3.5mm/Mini-toslink component which is possibly affected/broken by changes in firmware.

When first reading this thread a few comments were stating they were going to get the A1392 Airport Express, and I felt the need to warn others about my poor experience with the Mini-toslink output which was also experienced by many other users.

 

[oryan_dunn]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew-updated-dsp-dac-streamer.18681/post-615197
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ew-updated-dsp-dac-streamer.18681/post-611248

Amir has commented on Airplay doing funny stuff, providing a less than bit perfect signal. Are these concerns still valid?

I have a feeling the Airplay protocol is fine, it's specific implementations that have issues.

 

[Alexanderc]

I’ve been living with my airport express for a few weeks and have spent dozens of hours listening with both the analog and digital outputs. In my case they function identically. I can tell no difference between them at all.

Having said that, I have had issues with the internet connection. I have a second router set up as a wireless access point. It appears the airport express occasionally switches between the main router and the access point and drops the signal being streamed to it. Easy to fix when I have the time, but there does not seem any problem with the device in my use case.

 

[madstamm]

hello all, and especially Oryan Dunn thank you! I found this page after experiencing crackling issues with both the optical and analog out of my airport express. I noticed it especially on piano pieces and female voices. I have the 1392 version, probably about five years old. I use the optical out going directly to a hypex fusion fa122, and that in turn powers a very efficient speaker using a 10 inch mid range and a compression driver. before using the airport express, i used the spdif out of a USB dac. the Airport express is a very practical solution, but when I started using it I initially thought I had somehow damaged the tweeter.

A downgrade of the firmware to 7.6.9, from 7.8.0 initially, completely fixed the problem.

thank you so much-I’m super happy with the set up now. All the very best.

 

[Downtown]

Interesting discussion about this issue.
It is for many hard to understand as there‘s hardly no technical information about AirPlay 1 and 2 shared by Apple.

But remember the technical fundamentals:

• AirPlay 1 is a real-time stream protocol
• AirPlay 2 is a file-transfer protocol

on the Airport Express A1392 I noticed a hearable change in audio quality while updating from 7.6.9 to 7.8.1
I didn’t experience the crackling or drop-outs some people mentioned, the sound in that way is without disortion, but I hear a difference in the soundscape.

The 7.8.. versions implementing Airplay 2, which gives a lot of benefits (multi-room, more stability because of longer buffer),
but not mentioned no “bit perfect” streaming as I read in some posts on the web.
Is it because of a larger buffer and using way more data streams, that it ends up into a lesser audio quality ?

So basically, I noticed less audio quality compared to the old firmware (7.6.9) supporting only AirPlay 1 and mainly noticable in the frequency range of deep low bass response, a bit warmer open sound (less flat).

So if this is noticable for your ears as well ….. stick with the “old firmware” before the 7.8.0

I’m using the analog output from the Airport Express A1392 (because the internal DAC is a 24-bit/192khz Asahi Kasei AK4430 and a great performer), so we can conclude there‘s no conflict with an external DAC in this case.

Found more related sources to read for those who’re interested what’s going on with the AirPlay 2 implementation

Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res Mess

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[gfx_1]

I stream the sound from my Macbook air M1 to a raspberry pi running shairport (sudo apt install shairport)
The Pi is wired to the ethernet, The macbook air uses wifi. Seems to work allright.
On github is a newer version which supports some airplay 2 things.