Portable amp/DAC with Airplay. Why this does not exist?

[Fofocho]

I like to listen music wireless on my headphones. I use an iPhone so I am limited to AAC over Bluetooth. But even with an android and superior Bluetooth codecs, it would be lossy

Why isn’t there any portable amp/dac with Airplay? That would be lossless (16/44,1 on Airplay and 24/48 on Airplay 2)

 

[Jimbob54]

I like to listen music wireless on my headphones. I use an iPhone so I am limited to AAC over Bluetooth. But even with an android and superior Bluetooth codecs, it would be lossy

Why isn’t there any portable amp/dac with Airplay? That would be lossless (16/44,1 on Airplay and 24/48 on Airplay 2)

I guess because both devices need to be on the same wifi network. Not sure if it works tethering the receiving device to ones phone and setting up a mini network- but I guess Apple always figured it was for home devices. Plus limited appetite for 3rd party manufs. to pay for licensing etc using it would entail.

Pure guesswork on my part but I think Bluetooth has always been seen as the mobile solution for connecting devices on the fly.

 

[Fofocho]

It is weird. Even Apple on their Airpds Max use Bluetooth only and not airplay, so you get a $600 Apple headphones that cannot benefit from Apple Lossless music

However in my receiver I can enjoy Airplay using 2 brands (Tidal and Marantz) that have nothing to do with Apple

 

[Vincent Kars]

The moment you use protocols like Airplay, DLNA, etc, you need WiFi for a wireless connection. WiFi consumes substantial more power than Bluetooth. So it is either a big battery adding (to much) weight to your headphone or a small battery hence a short battery life.

that have nothing to do with Apple

Really? They do have to buy a license from Apple.

 

[Fofocho]

Of course they have to buy a license, that was not the point. The point is that Apple, that does not need to buy any license, do not offer Airplay on their expensive AirPods Max

 

[voodooless]

Apple rules that AAC is virtually indistinguishable from lossless, therefore there is no need to deliver lossless audio the the AirPod Max.

 

[Fofocho]

So Apple has decided that lossless is indistinguishable from AAC but at the same time they have included hi-res music on their platform?

 

[voodooless]

So Apple has decided that lossless is indistinguishable from AAC but at the same time they have included hi-res music on their platform?

Yes, they think that’s a nice gesture for the people that would like to have it anyway

 

[Fofocho]

The problem with AAC is not the resolution, which is 16/44,1, it is the bitrate of 256kbps, which is not even CD quality (1411 kbps). Hi-res is even above. But Apple says 256kbps is identical to CD… ok

 

[voodooless]

The problem with AAC is not the resolution, which is 16/44,1, it is the bitrate of 256kbps, which is not even CD quality (1411 kbps).

That’s not how it works. According to your logic, Flac would also be lower quality, because the bitrate is also lower than Redbook. And actually AAC can encode and decode 24 bit audio just fine. In fact Apple uses 24-bit masters for quite a substantial part of their library for AAC.

Hi-res is even above. But Apple says 256kbps is identical to CD… ok

For most people, that’s definitely the case:

Blind Test Results

The file size of an iTunes song is only a fraction of its CD counterpart because it has been compressed discarding data in the process. Is the audio quality degraded? More than a year ago I devised…

cdvsmp3.wordpress.com

The audibility of high-res may even be more disputed.

 

[Fofocho]

Putting hi-res aside, you mean that bitrate does not matter? Apple claims to be super efficient with AAC compression, but even that I think that bitrate matters. I can hear a clear difference between Spotify and Tidal, for example

 

[voodooless]

Putting hi-res aside, you mean that bitrate does not matter?

No, I said your reasoning isn’t sound.

I can hear a clear difference between Spotify and Tidal, for example

Good luck then with this test:

Is your audio system really ready for lossless?

Do an ABX test in your browser, and see if you can tell the difference between lossless and lossy audio

abx.digitalfeed.net

 

[TonyJZX]

apple tends to say a lot of shit... just like uncle paul mcgowan

and apple sometimes needs the entire force of the EU to come down on them to see sense

apple also likes to drip feed stuff to you so you'll continue to buy airpod max iv one day

 

[Fofocho]

Anyway, going back to the topic (Airplay). A quick test: I am sending Apple Music via Bluetooth to my Marantz receiver and I am doing the same with Airplay. Airplay sounds so much better

 

[cbass]

Another likely reason that AirPlay is not supported is because you would, eg, have to connect your headphones to the local WiFi network before you could use them, which is “fine” for your home LAN. But consider connecting to someone else’s network, which introduces scenarios like a malicious user on the network being able to interrupt your listening session.

Direct connection by WiFi could be possible, but this forces your iDevice to use its WiFi radio to be your headphones’ “access point” with all other traffic needing to go via cellular data, and let‘s not even consider the scenarios of Macs and iPads that don’t have cellular network support at all! This is why Bluetooth exists in the first place, for point-to-point pairing with relatively low friction.

There are numerous trade-offs to be made here aside from pure sound quality.

 

[Fofocho]

Another likely reason that AirPlay is not supported is because you would, eg, have to connect your headphones to the local WiFi network before you could use them, which is “fine” for your home LAN. But consider connecting to someone else’s network, which introduces scenarios like a malicious user on the network being able to interrupt your listening session.

Direct connection by WiFi could be possible, but this forces your iDevice to use its WiFi radio to be your headphones’ “access point” with all other traffic needing to go via cellular data, and let‘s not even consider the scenarios of Macs and iPads that don’t have cellular network support at all! This is why Bluetooth exists in the first place, for point-to-point pairing with relatively low friction.

Yes I see that point. Airplay makes sense only at home, but many devices include Airplay as an additional option to Bluetooth and license is not that expensive, the WiiM Mini has Airplay

 

[Chrispy]

Anyway, going back to the topic (Airplay). A quick test: I am sending Apple Music via Bluetooth to my Marantz receiver and I am doing the same with Airplay. Airplay sounds so much better

Even a slight level difference tilted towards airplay can make it seem that way, tho. Level matched and blind would be more the way to test to see if you can distinguish....

 

[voodooless]

I also think most Marantz AVRs only support SBC over Bluetooth, which isn’t the best codec anyway.

 

[Fofocho]

Levels are matched in the receiver, even I have tested with a decibel app. Also, when I wire my BTR5 to the iPhone, the sound changes dramatically, much more detail than in Bluetooth. Here I am not comparing Bluetooth with Airplay but with wired connection. I cannot buy that Bluetooth is indistinguishable

 

[Chrispy]

Levels are matched in the receiver, even I have tested with a decibel app. Also, when I wire my BTR5 to the iPhone, the sound changes dramatically, much more detail than in Bluetooth. Here I am not comparing Bluetooth with Airplay but with wired connection. I cannot buy that Bluetooth is indistinguishable

Output level is one thing, input another. Accuracy with an spl meter could be iffy too. Bluetooth codecs can be different, tho as mentioned.