Ananda stealth vs. Edition XS?

[blanc]

Hi，

Why did Hifiman release Ananda stealth version which is very similar to the earlier Edition XS, similar stealth magnet, similar NEO Supernano Diaphragm, similar ear cups and similar price level? Are there any essential differences?

 

[Rayman30]

Hi，

Why did Hifiman release Ananda stealth version which is very similar to the earlier Edition XS, similar stealth magnet, similar NEO Supernano Diaphragm, similar ear cups and similar price level? Are there any essential differences?

Because with Hifiman, you seem to be paying for QC and build quality vs. real world performance. I am not convinced anyone should buy their high end cans, objectively the Sundara is high quality, but many people (myself included) believe that you do get a better subjective experience with the Egg shaped cans. Try and not to spend to much on Hifiman please, you likely wont get your moneys worth.

 

[staticV3]

Because with Hifiman, you seem to be paying for QC and build quality vs. real world performance.

That answer makes no sense.

 

[staticV3]

@blanc The Ananda Stealth is $1000 Msrp, The XS is $500. I doubt they're all that similar when looking closely.

 

[Rayman30]

That answer makes no sense.

It makes sense to me, see I have owned many Hifiman products (HE4XX, Sundara, Ananda) have auditioned Arya V2 and Susvara. While have not spent extensive time with them all comparing directly, to ME subjectively of course, the jump in audio quality becomes diminishing returns fast, when auditioning Susvara, I immediately thought that they sounded similar to Ananda.

 

[Rayman30]

@blanc The Ananda Stealth is $1000 Msrp, The XS is $500. I doubt they're all that similar when looking closely.

A problem that I have with Hifiman, other companies as well is that they never really explain what separates their products. Hifiman's Facebook page for example, every headphone is now "Stealth Magnet, Super thin diaphragm" well if thats the case then buy the cheapest, because I am not convinced that they arent using the same manufacturing techniques across the board, if you look at their drivers they almost all look identical (Egg shaped cans that is) so what is this magical technology that makes the Arya or Susvara better? its not explained at all, and makes its look like its essentially conditional improvements (Driver matching, build materials etc.) now, I do appreciate the build quality, the Susvara are beautiful, but is it worth 6-8 times more than an Edition XS? if so they need to better explain why.

 

[oleg87]

I’ve been unimpressed by enough expensive cans - that certainly don’t meausure better by objective metrics either - that my personal suspicion is that in terms of sound quality it’s fairly arbitrary market segmentation for the most part. Swap around the price points on two solid products and audiophiles will just tweak whatever adjectives they need to justify their investment. I’d judge with my ears, not my wallet.

 

[blanc]

To make it simple, I just want some personal experience about the difference of both hps. Price shall not be an issue at first.

 

[Georgeadv]

Sundara has higher score both after and pre eq than xs, even susvara

 

[staticV3]

Sundara has higher score both after and pre eq than xs, even susvara

Sean Olive's "Statistical model that predicts listeners' preference ratings" is extremely volatile and useless beyond some very approximate comparisons.
Ranking Headphones based on a few points difference is therefore very misguided.
For example, there are fourteen points between these two HD600 samples: Link
The algorithm also ranks the 800S one point out of 100 worse than the Stealth:


Furthermore, you can make the post EQ preference score whatever you want, so when you say that one headphone has a better post EQ score than the other, then you're rating the EQ design, not the headphone.

 

[Georgeadv]

Sean Olive's "Statistical model that predicts listeners' preference ratings" is extremely volatile and useless beyond some very approximate comparisons.
Ranking Headphones based on a few points difference is therefore very misguided.
For example, there are fourteen points between these two HD600 samples: Link
The algorithm also ranks the 800S one point out of 100 worse than the Stealth:
View attachment 240261 View attachment 240262

Furthermore, you can make the post EQ preference score whatever you want, so when you say that one headphone has a better post EQ score than the other, then you're rating the EQ design, not the headphone.

I fail to see your point.

Everything is in the FR. this is what the research has shown and what the subjective tests have been showing.

If a headphone can be equed to get a better score that means something especially if the other headphone costs more than 10x

The same is shown here with Amir’s measurements from expensive dacs to cables to amplifiers

If you spent 5k on a headphone you persuade yourself that is vastly better than a 350€ one.

Research suggests otherwise than what you claim

 

[staticV3]

I fail to see your point.

Evidently.

 

[srkbear]

I own the Edition XS, the Arya Stealth and the HEKse, although I also auditioned the HEKV2 (non Stealth version), the Ananda Stealth, the Sundaras and the Susvara for a couple of weeks.

I had zero build issues with any of them—I think this is a problem from the past that has been largely rectified, at least for their products in these price points. The oval pad line runs circles around their round pad options—not only in comfort but in performance and tuning.

The Sundaras and Susvaras were the easiest to send back. The Edition XS trampled the Sundaras in soundstage, detail retrieval and tuning, for only $100 more. The Susvaras were surgically precise but with so much bass roll off they were zero fun to listen to, and they are near impossible to drive.

The Anandas went back next. Again the Edition XS had a wider soundstage and far more bass slam, and cost $200 less—although the Ananda has the ski band that some folks might find more comfortable. I don’t mind the headband on the Edition XS at all, and I think it’s the best headphone out there under $500. I decided to keep it as my portable option.

The Arya Stealth is terrific—I loved the tuning right out of the box, it has zero fatigue factor, has a very premium build, huge soundstage and is tons of fun. I kept it as my “workhorse” daily headphone.

Both the HEKV2 and HEKse are extraordinary. Impeccable build, fantastic design, amazing elasticity in their fit and as comfortable as any headphone I’ve ever tried. They both have their respective strengths—the HEKV2 has a bit wider soundstage, a formidable sub bass and smooth highs with zero fatigue factor. Crinacle ranks them in the top three for good reason—they’re damn near perfect, although they are marginally outdone by the HEKse and Susvara in detail retrieval.

The HEKse is perhaps the fastest and most detailed headphone I’ve ever heard. Imaging is jaw dropping. So is timbre. They’re so resolving that I had the cliche of hearing things in the mix I’d never heard before in songs I’ve listened to a million times. They have more emphasis in the mid bass than the HEKV2, which provides a bit more warmth and fullness, but with just a shade less slam than the HEKV2. They’re also a bit easier to drive with their sensitivity of 96 (vs 90 for the V2).

But they have a hump in the 5-8,000 hz range, which likely contributes to their detail but can be a bit bright and fatiguing on some tracks, which is not the case for the HEKV2s at all.

I chose to keep the HEKse because their performance was so unparalleled for critical listening and I felt the V2 was not worth the extra cash since I was already keeping the Arya Stealth. However, at the time I wished that a Stealth version existed for the HEKV2, because if it brought the detail anywhere near the level of the HEKse it would be my fantasy headphone without question.

Well, ironically that came true last week—the HEKV2 Stealth is now available only in Germany and Poland for the time being. I have until February 1st to return my HEKse, and I’m hoping I have the chance to audition this new V2 before it runs out. But even if I miss it, I’m totally won over to this brand—and I think it may be time to revisit the build quality issue. The ones I have had my hands on recently are flawless.

 

[Yamato]

I own the Edition XS, the Arya Stealth and the HEKse, although I also auditioned the HEKV2 (non Stealth version), the Ananda Stealth, the Sundaras and the Susvara for a couple of weeks.

I had zero build issues with any of them—I think this is a problem from the past that has been largely rectified, at least for their products in these price points. The oval pad line runs circles around their round pad options—not only in comfort but in performance and tuning.

The Sundaras and Susvaras were the easiest to send back. The Edition XS trampled the Sundaras in soundstage, detail retrieval and tuning, for only $100 more. The Susvaras were surgically precise but with so much bass roll off they were zero fun to listen to, and they are near impossible to drive.

The Anandas went back next. Again the Edition XS had a wider soundstage and far more bass slam, and cost $200 less—although the Ananda has the ski band that some folks might find more comfortable. I don’t mind the headband on the Edition XS at all, and I think it’s the best headphone out there under $500. I decided to keep it as my portable option.

The Arya Stealth is terrific—I loved the tuning right out of the box, it has zero fatigue factor, has a very premium build, huge soundstage and is tons of fun. I kept it as my “workhorse” daily headphone.

Both the HEKV2 and HEKse are extraordinary. Impeccable build, fantastic design, amazing elasticity in their fit and as comfortable as any headphone I’ve ever tried. They both have their respective strengths—the HEKV2 has a bit wider soundstage, a formidable sub bass and smooth highs with zero fatigue factor. Crinacle ranks them in the top three for good reason—they’re damn near perfect, although they are marginally outdone by the HEKse and Susvara in detail retrieval.

The HEKse is perhaps the fastest and most detailed headphone I’ve ever heard. Imaging is jaw dropping. So is timbre. They’re so resolving that I had the cliche of hearing things in the mix I’d never heard before in songs I’ve listened to a million times. They have more emphasis in the mid bass than the HEKV2, which provides a bit more warmth and fullness, but with just a shade less slam than the HEKV2. They’re also a bit easier to drive with their sensitivity of 96 (vs 90 for the V2).

But they have a hump in the 5-8,000 hz range, which likely contributes to their detail but can be a bit bright and fatiguing on some tracks, which is not the case for the HEKV2s at all.

I chose to keep the HEKse because their performance was so unparalleled for critical listening and I felt the V2 was not worth the extra cash since I was already keeping the Arya Stealth. However, at the time I wished that a Stealth version existed for the HEKV2, because if it brought the detail anywhere near the level of the HEKse it would be my fantasy headphone without question.

Well, ironically that came true last week—the HEKV2 Stealth is now available only in Germany and Poland for the time being. I have until February 1st to return my HEKse, and I’m hoping I have the chance to audition this new V2 before it runs out. But even if I miss it, I’m totally won over to this brand—and I think it may be time to revisit the build quality issue. The ones I have had my hands on recently are flawless.

I have a chance to either get the Edition XS or the Arya Stealth for around 20% off. Which do you think is the one worth getting? Is the build better on the Arya? Is the Arya harsher/more difficult to listen to at times? How big is the difference between them in SQ? Sorry for so many questions at once, but I'm very curious.

 

[okok]

he400se EQ to HE1, problem solved

 

[Ellie]

I fail to see your point.

Everything is in the FR. this is what the research has shown and what the subjective tests have been showing.

If a headphone can be equed to get a better score that means something especially if the other headphone costs more than 10x

The same is shown here with Amir’s measurements from expensive dacs to cables to amplifiers

If you spent 5k on a headphone you persuade yourself that is vastly better than a 350€ one.

Research suggests otherwise than what you claim

You are missing a part of the picture.

Yes, everything IS in frequency response, however, there is a big problem; our measurements are not detailed enough to work with to actually account for everything. We can't even get accurate measurements above 10 khz.

Not only that, but we don't know WHAT part of frequency response is responsible for every single aspect of sound.

If we ever get to the point where our measurements get granular enough and we know exactly what part of the frequency response corresponds/interacts correctly with what with more good research, then yeah, if we use a driver with low enough distortion, we could use convolution filters to accomplish whatever we like.

Until then, we're kinda stuck with expensive headphones to sound really good. I dunno about 5K USD headphones, but at least into the kilobuck range, at least from my experience.

 

[Georgeadv]

You are missing a part of the picture.

Yes, everything IS in frequency response, however, there is a big problem; our measurements are not detailed enough to work with to actually account for everything. We can't even get accurate measurements above 10 khz.

Not only that, but we don't know WHAT part of frequency response is responsible for every single aspect of sound.

If we ever get to the point where our measurements get granular enough and we know exactly what part of the frequency response corresponds/interacts correctly with what with more good research, then yeah, if we use a driver with low enough distortion, we could use convolution filters to accomplish whatever we like.

Until then, we're kinda stuck with expensive headphones to sound really good. I dunno about 5K USD headphones, but at least into the kilobuck range, at least from my experience.

Then we would judge by taste… the fr of an expensive headphone is as inaccurate as that of a cheap

 

[srkbear]

I have a chance to either get the Edition XS or the Arya Stealth for around 20% off. Which do you think is the one worth getting? Is the build better on the Arya? Is the Arya harsher/more difficult to listen to at times? How big is the difference between them in SQ? Sorry for so many questions at once, but I'm very curious.

Sorry for the delayed response! The build quality is equally fine on both, but the Arya Stealth is more premium in appearance and comfortable in the fit. If you can afford the extra cash, I would go with the Arya Stealth without hesitation. They’re both great headphones but the Arya is an improvement commensurate with its higher price point.

They’re probably a draw on tuning, soundstage and bass slam, but the Arya SE has better materials, more refined design and substantially better imaging and detail retrieval. There is nothing fatiguing about either of your options at all (unlike the HE1000se).

I think the next step up from the Arya SE will likely be the new HE1000 V2 Stealth, as the TOTL in this segment of their oval pad product line, while the HE1000SE will remain in its own category altogether, along with the Susvara. The Edition XS, Arya Stealth and HE1000 V2 all share very similar, smooth as butter tuning, while the HE1000se and Susvara both have vastly different tuning from these three, and in my view, both inferior for different reasons—the HE1000se overdoing the highs, and the Susvaras omitting the bass altogether.

I’m personally holding out for the HE1000 V2 Stealth, which will retail at $2,399 when it reaches the US. But if this helps you at all, if was forced to part ways with my HE1000se and “only” have my Arya Stealth, I’d be perfectly happy—honest! It’s a spectacular headphone for any genre. Give it a try through Amazon and return it if you’re not convinced—but I bet you’ll keep it! —Steve

 

[Yamato]

Sorry for the delayed response! The build quality is equally fine on both, but the Arya Stealth is more premium in appearance and comfortable in the fit. If you can afford the extra cash, I would go with the Arya Stealth without hesitation. They’re both great headphones but the Arya is an improvement commensurate with its higher price point.

They’re probably a draw on tuning, soundstage and bass slam, but the Arya SE has better materials, more refined design and substantially better imaging and detail retrieval. There is nothing fatiguing about either of your options at all (unlike the HE1000se).

I think the next step up from the Arya SE will likely be the new HE1000 V2 Stealth, as the TOTL in this segment of their oval pad product line, while the HE1000SE will remain in its own category altogether, along with the Susvara. The Edition XS, Arya Stealth and HE1000 V2 all share very similar, smooth as butter tuning, while the HE1000se and Susvara both have vastly different tuning from these three, and in my view, both inferior for different reasons—the HE1000se overdoing the highs, and the Susvaras omitting the bass altogether.

I’m personally holding out for the HE1000 V2 Stealth, which will retail at $2,399 when it reaches the US. But if this helps you at all, if was forced to part ways with my HE1000se and “only” have my Arya Stealth, I’d be perfectly happy—honest! It’s a spectacular headphone for any genre. Give it a try through Amazon and return it if you’re not convinced—but I bet you’ll keep it! —Steve

Well, I kind of jumped the gun and got the Arya Stealth. It's as near-perfect as I can imagine anything in audio atm. It's certainly bright-leaning (but not edgy like my HD 560s), dynamics are so intense that it's a bit painful on some tracks and there's a wide, deep and very tall soundstage. Detail and clarity are something else, and I can feel that characteristic of oval-shaped Hifiman's that others mention where every part of a track feels kind of diffuse, like things that normally sound very close and in-your-face are distanced and wispy. It's an effect that I personally like a lot, and complements my HD 6XX exactly. The ONLY criticism I can levy is that if you're listening to the wrong thing, some of those air frequencies can intrude a bit too much.

 

[srkbear]

Well, I kind of jumped the gun and got the Arya Stealth. It's as near-perfect as I can imagine anything in audio atm. It's certainly bright-leaning (but not edgy like my HD 560s), dynamics are so intense that it's a bit painful on some tracks and there's a wide, deep and very tall soundstage. Detail and clarity are something else, and I can feel that characteristic of oval-shaped Hifiman's that others mention where every part of a track feels kind of diffuse, like things that normally sound very close and in-your-face are distanced and wispy. It's an effect that I personally like a lot, and complements my HD 6XX exactly. The ONLY criticism I can levy is that if you're listening to the wrong thing, some of those air frequencies can intrude a bit too much.

That’s terrific! I’m glad to hear that your experiences thus far mirror my own, and it’s particularly great that you got the 20% discount. I think the Arya Stealth is the greatest all-rounder “audiophile” headphone currently on the market, and especially for the rock genres I prefer, it’s also the most fun.

Plus it offers an incredibly refined, satisfying alternative to the prevailing $3,000+ “flagship” offerings out there at a fraction of the cost. I also believe that unlike some of HifiMan’s other accessibly-priced offerings of the past, the Arya SE is clearly built to last.

One thing about Hifiman is that they have true upgrade programs—the only one currently published is the upgrade from the HE1000 V2 to the HE1000se, but word is that they’ll honor upgrades from the Arya Stealth and other options in their mid-priced lines to other higher priced options if approached directly, as a trade in—usually for the price delta between the two.

As I mentioned before, the HE1000 V2, Arya Stealth and Edition XS all have very similar tunings, soundstages and bass responses—their main differences are progressively more premium qualities of their designs and their degrees of detail retrieval (plus the HE1000 V2 is a bit less sensitive than the others at 90 SPL/mW). And now that the HE1000 V2 is becoming available as a Stealth version, they all share that tech as well.

I plan on grabbing up an HE1000 V2 Stealth once it becomes available stateside, and I’ll surely pass along my thoughts about it when the time comes. It may represent a viable “upgrade” option to existing Arya Stealth owners who might be interested at some point in the future, but like I said before I don’t think you can ask much more from a headphone than the Arya Stealth, at any price point.

I should also add that GUCraftsman makes a very affordable mixed single crystal silver/copper intertwined balanced cable option with either XLR, 4.4mm pentaconn, 2.5mm, 3.5mm and 6.35mm connectors at a very reasonable price, and my Arya Stealth really shines with the increased power (and perhaps controversially the lower SNR) afforded by the balanced circuit, depending on your amp.

GUCraftsman 16 Strands 7N Single Crystal Copper/Silver Mixed Headphones Replacement Cables 4Pin XLR/2.5mm/4.4mm Balance for HIFIMAN HE1000SE HE5SE HE6SE SUSVARA Ananda Arya SUNDARA (4.4mm Plug) https://a.co/d/gstAotm