Ananda stealth vs. Edition XS?

[srkbear]

You are missing a part of the picture.

Yes, everything IS in frequency response, however, there is a big problem; our measurements are not detailed enough to work with to actually account for everything. We can't even get accurate measurements above 10 khz.

Not only that, but we don't know WHAT part of frequency response is responsible for every single aspect of sound.

If we ever get to the point where our measurements get granular enough and we know exactly what part of the frequency response corresponds/interacts correctly with what with more good research, then yeah, if we use a driver with low enough distortion, we could use convolution filters to accomplish whatever we like.

Until then, we're kinda stuck with expensive headphones to sound really good. I dunno about 5K USD headphones, but at least into the kilobuck range, at least from my experience.

How are we “stuck” with expensive headphones to get “good” sound? Have you heard the HiFiMan Edition X or the Arya Stealth? I think the prevailing experts on this forum have been quite transparent that unlike DACs, measurements don’t tell the whole story with headphones.

I own the Edition XS ($459), the HE1000se ($3,500), the Sony Z1R ($1,799), the Focal Utopia ($4,400 at the time), the Meze Elites (I paid $3,500 for them) and the Arya Stealth ($1,299). I’ve also auditioned the DCA Expanse and Audeze LCD-4 for two weeks each. If I were forced to live with only one of them for the remainder of my life, I’d take the Arya Stealth with me without any regret over the others. And I wouldn’t be devastated over keeping the Edition XS either.

Since I got the Arya SE, I’ve not touched my Utopias, and I only reach for the Elites or the HE1000se for certain usage scenarios or specific tracks. Headphones these days primarily differ in tuning to the largest degree, and fortunately the two HiFiMan options are tuned perfectly (to my ears) right out of the box—with plenty of satisfying bass and zero fatigue factor in the highs.

In terms of other “premium” factors, they both have vast soundstages, plenty of bass slam, and formidable imaging, timbre and detail retrieval (the Arya outdoes the Edition XS in the latter category, but not extraordinarily so).

It is absolutely possible to get a terrific-sounding, versatile and high-performance headphone at a fraction of the latest $4,000 “flagship” cutoff these days, if you resist catering to marketing hype and the illusion that cost defines quality.

 

[bkdc]

I finally ordered the Edition XS. I love the planar magnetic signature (fast decay) and this one seems promising. I wish Hifiman would sell aftermarket headbands that fit the egg shaped cans. I’d love the original Edition X headband on the XS.

 

[Yamato]

How are we “stuck” with expensive headphones to get “good” sound? Have you heard the HiFiMan Edition X or the Arya Stealth? I think the prevailing experts on this forum have been quite transparent that unlike DACs, measurements don’t tell the whole story with headphones.

I own the Edition XS ($459), the HE1000se ($3,500), the Sony Z1R ($1,799), the Focal Utopia ($4,400 at the time), the Meze Elites (I paid $3,500 for them) and the Arya Stealth ($1,299). I’ve also auditioned the DCA Expanse and Audeze LCD-4 for two weeks each. If I were forced to live with only one of them for the remainder of my life, I’d take the Arya Stealth with me without any regret over the others. And I wouldn’t be devastated over keeping the Edition XS either.

Since I got the Arya SE, I’ve not touched my Utopias, and I only reach for the Elites or the HE1000se for certain usage scenarios or specific tracks. Headphones these days primarily differ in tuning to the largest degree, and fortunately the two HiFiMan options are tuned perfectly (to my ears) right out of the box—with plenty of satisfying bass and zero fatigue factor in the highs.

In terms of other “premium” factors, they both have vast soundstages, plenty of bass slam, and formidable imaging, timbre and detail retrieval (the Arya outdoes the Edition XS in the latter category, but not extraordinarily so).

It is absolutely possible to get a terrific-sounding, versatile and high-performance headphone at a fraction of the latest $4,000 “flagship” cutoff these days, if you resist catering to marketing hype and the illusion that cost defines quality.

You test the HE1000V2 Stealth yet? I'm scrounging for news on it at this point.

 

[IAtaman]

You test the HE1000V2 Stealth yet? I'm scrounging for news on it at this point.

Sorry, I am a bit confused. HE1000SE is the stealth magnet version. What is V2 stealth supposed to be, can not find it on Hifiman website either?

 

[Yamato]

Sorry, I am a bit confused. HE1000SE is the stealth magnet version. What is V2 stealth supposed to be, can not find it on Hifiman website either?

Some retailers are stocking this 'Stealth' version of the V2, which is completely different from the HE1000se. It's simply a new version of the HE1000V2. It's still up in the air, but it seems to retain the warmer tuning of the V2 and the same wider-rather-than-deep stage, and probably still doesn't have technicalities at the HE1000se's level. Passion for sound did a video on it here:

and was explained by Hifiman that they kept the same name because otherwise they'd need to restart in the rankings and algorithms on the listings of sites like Amazon.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005091832802.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.23e438dahI7FTd&mp=1

HiFiMan – HE-1000v2 Stealth Magnetic Over Ear Headphones • Magna Hifi

The HiFiMAN HE-1000 was released for the first time in the summer of 2015 and immediately topped the charts of many hi-fi and head-fi magazines around the world. Rarely has a product received such unanimous international reviews. In 2016 this model received a V2 version and now HiFiMAN added...

magnahifi.com

These are two retailers that seem to list the stealth version.

 

[IAtaman]

explained by Hifiman that they kept the same name because otherwise they'd need to restart in the rankings and algorithms on the listings of sites like Amazon.

Great idea to keep the same name for 2 different products , it's not like their customers are detailed oriented people who worry about smallest differences to sound signature or anything.

 

[Rayman30]

I emailed Hifiman and asked them the to provide the diaphragm size for the Edition XS, Ananda Stealth and Arya Stealth. They replied back to me with this.

"I'm sorry that I wouldn't be able to answer your question as this information is not available"

This is very suspect, how then do these models differ? tuning and build quality? am I the only one bothered by this?

 

[srkbear]

I emailed Hifiman and asked them the to provide the diaphragm size for the Edition XS, Ananda Stealth and Arya Stealth. They replied back to me with this.

"I'm sorry that I wouldn't be able to answer your question as this information is not available"

This is very suspect, how then do these models differ? tuning and build quality? am I the only one bothered by this?

To my knowledge (and from eyeballing the five models I own), all of the oval pad design options—the HE1000se, V2 and Stealth, the Arya and Amanda iterations, the Edition XS and Audivina, all have identical driver sizes, diaphragm dimensions, and standard proprietary features—the Stealth neodymium magnet, the nanothin diaphragm, and window shade grilles. However, all of them have very different sound profiles and tuning, and they also differ in the premium aspects of the build (I did not say quality—they all have QC that I’ve found just fine). With increasing price, they add features such as three dimensional headband swivels, material choices and fancy touches.

I have tried just about all of them they have to offer, and currently I’ve kept the HE1000se, the HE1000 Stealth, the Edition XS, and the Ananda Nano—the Edition XS is the most barebones in appearance and has the most limited swivel options, but I find them all equally and impeccably comfortable. The Ananda Nano, Arya Organic and HE1000 are their latest offerings, and they’re all iterations of their own product lines that have been upgraded to more Harman-compliant tuning, with a 5-6 db rise in the bass shelf and the highs brought by the Stealth magnet tamed a bit, resolving the fatigue factor found in the previous models (in my perception).

I listen to the HE1000 Stealth the most. In my view, it’s my endgame headphone in terms of soundstage, detail retrieval, timbre, imaging, tuning, comfort and “fun factor”—I find them versatile enough to satisfy just about any genre. And like most other Hifiman products, they’re priced unusually fairly—I consider this company to be analogous to the “Topping” or “SMSL” of the headphone market in this regard. They prove that you can obtain the finest possible listening experience without the Stereophlle price points.

 

[Blorg]

@blanc The Ananda Stealth is $1000 Msrp, The XS is $500. I doubt they're all that similar when looking closely.

OK, so this was a year ago... fast forward to today, and there's only $20 between them.

 

[srkbear]

OK, so this was a year ago... fast forward to today, and there's only $20 between them.

View attachment 328462

Oh but they sound so different—I’d take the XS any day, if you care about bass at least. The Ananda Nano is another story altogether—but the Stealth is highly lacking in the low end department and borderline fatiguing in the highs. For objective proof of this, compare the two on rtings.com—they offer the most comprehensively detailed breakdowns of any site I’ve yet seen, and they have highly standardized comparative measurements of both models (along with their own assessment of the two based on their objective determinants). They agree that the XS wins out and explain why—and based on my own subjective experiences I think they’re spot on!

 

[Blorg]

Oh but they sound so different—I’d take the XS any day, if you care about bass at least. The Ananda Nano is another story altogether—but the Stealth is highly lacking in the low end department and borderline fatiguing in the highs. For objective proof of this, compare the two on rtings.com—they offer the most comprehensively detailed breakdowns of any site I’ve yet seen, and they have highly standardized comparative measurements of both models (along with their own assessment of the two based on their objective determinants). They agree that the XS wins out and explain why—and based on my own subjective experiences I think they’re spot on!

Rtings don't have the Ananda Stealth as far as I can see, only the OG Ananda, which is rolled off in the sub-bass (I have it).

Ananda Stealth seems to have bass very similar to the Edition XS, from people who have measured both.

squiglink - frequency response database by [email protected]

Compare hundreds of headphone frequency response graphs

sai.squig.link

Most other measurements of the OG Ananda (like Rtings and Crinacle) also show this sub-bass roll-off with the Ananda. All measurements of the Stealth I've seen, though, the sub-bass is no longer rolled off.

Other measurements of the Ananda Stealth also seem to suggest it now has more linear bass extension:

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by VSG

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

vsg.squig.link

 

[Dunring]

I've been using the HE5xx as a daily driver for weeks and just pulled the Ananda Stealth out of the box again. These are really worth it if you get the open box from Hifiman for $349. Volume matched and the detail is really apparent. Bass extends down, and they're easy enough to drive you can equalize it and most amps can deal with the preamp reduction. I've had the XS and they're fun too, more musical but with the Ananda there's not enough difference you couldn't equalize into them. The big difference with these is on "Get low" from Lil Jon you can hear not just the bass, but the details of the instruments much more clearly. Any gamer who can afford them should get these, the imaging is much better than the original or XS, soundstage is wide and deep. It really does sound like the chart, the bass is there but not dialed up which I personally like.
Have a Hifiman HE-R10D coming this week to compare to the Audivina. I didn't like those, they're the best closed back I've heard, but not a good value. Hifiman sent me one for a month to try out, but like the Heddphone, not worth the MSRP in any way. Skipping the Sundara closed back and will see how the HE-R10D stacks up for value for money.
Just put a daily driver stack together of the SMSL DL200 5 volt DAC and Sabaj A20H and it's fantastic for planars, in low gain and can't go over -22db before it's too loud.

 

[Phoney]

Rtings don't have the Ananda Stealth as far as I can see, only the OG Ananda, which is rolled off in the sub-bass (I have it).

Ananda Stealth seems to have bass very similar to the Edition XS, from people who have measured both.
View attachment 331086

squiglink - frequency response database by [email protected]

Compare hundreds of headphone frequency response graphs

sai.squig.link

Most other measurements of the OG Ananda (like Rtings and Crinacle) also show this sub-bass roll-off with the Ananda. All measurements of the Stealth I've seen, though, the sub-bass is no longer rolled off.

Other measurements of the Ananda Stealth also seem to suggest it now has more linear bass extension:
View attachment 331087

Squiglink - IEM frequency response database by VSG

Compare hundreds of frequency response graphs between IEMs and earphones from manufacturers like Moondrop, Sony, 64 Audio, Fiio, and more.

vsg.squig.link

Are both of those the 440g version of Ananda Stealth? I know that the techpowerup one is. The newest version is 398g.

 

[Blorg]

Are both of those the 440g version of Ananda Stealth? I know that the techpowerup one is. The newest version is 398g.

I don't think there were sound differences between the two versions of the Ananda Stealth, if the weight actually varied at all. My understanding, both the V2 and V3 fixed the bass roll-off, only the OG has the roll-off. Hifiman often has weights from previous versions that can be 40g off, you can't rely on them. So sometimes they list a weight and then it just doesn't get updated... and then they update it 2 years later and people go, it's a new version, when they just updated the spec.

The original Ananda was listed at 399g... it's actually 415g, I have it. Usually when stealth magnets are added it does add around 40g to the weight. Did they actually get it down again to 398g? Or was this someone just referring to the old spec?

The HE6SEV2 is still listed as 50Ω because the original HE6 was 50Ω on release in 2009. The HE6SEV1 was 64Ω, as is the V2... they literally just copied the old impedance number from 15 years ago.

 

[Phoney]

I don't think there were sound differences between the two versions of the Ananda Stealth, if the weight actually varied at all. My understanding, both the V2 and V3 fixed the bass roll-off, only the OG has the roll-off. Hifiman often has weights from previous versions that can be 40g off, you can't rely on them. So sometimes they list a weight and then it just doesn't get updated... and then they update it 2 years later and people go, it's a new version, when they just updated the spec.

The original Ananda was listed at 399g... it's actually 415g, I have it. Usually when stealth magnets are added it does add around 40g to the weight. Did they actually get it down again to 398g? Or was this someone just referring to the old spec?

The HE6SEV2 is still listed as 50Ω because the original HE6 was 50Ω on release in 2009. The HE6SEV1 was 64Ω, as is the V2... they literally just copied the old impedance number from 15 years ago.

The v3 version is also stealth magnet, and that one is 398g. It also has an impedance of 16ohm (15.5ohm) and sensitivity 93db. The v2 stealth version is 27ohm and 103db sensitivity. The only measurements that I have seen of the 16ohm stealth version is this:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifi...-magnetic-headphones-official-thread/3247/229

Just Hifiman doing a silent revision it seems, and everyone is confused again. They even released the v3 as a silver version first, but they don't sell it in silver anymore (just regular color), and now Nano has been released.

 

[Blorg]

The v3 version is also stealth magnet, and that one is 398g. It also has an impedance of 16ohm (15.5ohm) and sensitivity 93db. The v2 stealth version is 27ohm and 103db sensitivity. The only measurements that I have seen of the 16ohm stealth version is this:
https://forum.headphones.com/t/hifi...-magnetic-headphones-official-thread/3247/229

Just Hifiman doing a silent revision it seems, and everyone is confused again. They even released the v3 as a silver version first, but they don't sell it in silver anymore (just regular color), and now Nano has been released.

Right, and that has the bass as well, as does the Nano. The only Ananda with the rolled-off bass is the OG one, every version from the first Stealth onwards now has linear bass.

I wouldn't be going on the weights though unless you have seen third party measurements, weights are as likely copied from an old spec and are not a reliable indicator of what version something is. I have a 415g Ananda, so what version is that? If you are going off the published spec weights, it doesn't exist.

 

[Phoney]

Right, and that has the bass as well, as does the Nano. The only Ananda with the rolled-off bass is the OG one, every version from the first Stealth onwards now has linear bass.

I wouldn't be going on the weights though unless you have seen third party measurements, weights are as likely copied from an old spec and are not a reliable indicator of what version something is. I have a 415g Ananda, so what version is that? If you are going off the published spec weights, it doesn't exist.

Not sure what your point is. What my point is, is that there are probably some frequency response differences between the v2 and the v3, especially since they have different impedance and sensitivity. Probably not huge differences, but I would assume that they are not exactly the same.

Edit: I was not trying to join in on the bass discussion, I was just asking if you knew which version your first graph was. I wanted to know if it was v3 like mine, for other reasons than the bass response.

 

[Blorg]

Not sure what your point is. What my point is, is that there are probably some frequency response differences between the v2 and the v3, especially since they have different impedance and sensitivity. Probably not huge differences, but I would assume that they are not exactly the same.

Edit: I was not trying to join in on the bass discussion, I was just asking if you knew which version your first graph was. I wanted to know if it was v3 like mine, for other reasons than the bass response.

This was the discussion, the bass. And this went up in the Stealth and they all had linear bass after that. To be honest ALL the Hifiman egg headphones sound very similar, even totally different models, so I doubt there are significant or likely even discernable differences between the V2 and V3. I have or had the OG Ananda, Edition XS, Arya Stealth and HE1000 Stealth.

The big outlier was the OG Ananda which WAS rolled off in the bass, and that's an audible difference. Even between models, the differences otherwise are very subtle, I doubt I'd pass a blind test between the Edition XS and Arya Stealth for example. And these are two totally different models with one 3x the price of the other.

So given the major difference (the bass) was brought up, I doubt there is really much of any difference between the V2 and V3 Stealth. I think Hifiman even said there wasn't a difference, it wasn't a change they particularly publicised and they do tend to label substantive changes that do actually have a sonic effect.

OG to Stealth it got bass and also brighter. Then Nano was a new diaphragm same as the Arya so that's a theoretical difference.

The Stealth wasn't 103dB. I think they just copied that spec from the OG Ananda, it was advertised as that, although it wasn't that sensitive either. There isn't the huge difference between them that you'd think from looking at the Hifiman spec. The Stealth was probably a little harder to drive than the OG but I don't believe the V3 needs over 10x the power of the V2 Stealth... this is putting much too much faith in Hifiman's spec figures which are often way off. Don't presume there will be differences in the sound because they changed the spec numbers, it's often nothing much really changed but they re-measured and updated them. The OG Ananda they also listed at 103dB but RAA measured it at 95.5dB/mW. Amir got around 100dB/mW. The OG Ananda is genuinely very easy to drive, but it's probably more like 96-100 than 103dB, which is IEM-level. The HE1000 Stealth they say is 93dB but RAA measured 96dB... and that's actually more like reality, it's very easy to drive and only very slightly harder than the original Ananda. But if we went by the spec numbers, the HE1000 Stealth needs 10x the power of the OG Ananda. But it doesn't remotely, I have both. There's probably only 3-4dB between them.

So it could well be they were in fact very close to each other and this was just someone decided to re-measure and update the spec on the box rather than an actual substantive change.

 

[pawelw]

Have a Hifiman HE-R10D coming this week to compare to the Audivina. I didn't like those, they're the best closed back I've heard, but not a good value. Hifiman sent me one for a month to try out, but like the Heddphone, not worth the MSRP in any way. Skipping the Sundara closed back and will see how the HE-R10D stacks up for value for money.

I am choosing between Ananda Stealth vs Edition XS vs HE-R10D. All 3 are at similar price at the moment. I will use it mainly for music production and mix. I figured Ananda Stealth is a better choice comparing to Edition XS but I am really wondering about HE-R10D. Can you please let us know your feeling about HE-R10D comparing to Ananda? I don't trust youtubers too much anymore.

 

[Dunring]

I have both currently, will summarize:
The Ananda Stealth is very neutral out of the box, equalizing bass up is easy in a music player and you'll have fun. Imaging is excellent and soundstage is deep and wide, not just wide like the Sundara.
The HE-10D is a really good closed back dynamic driver headphone. They're right up there with the Beyerdynamic DT1770 but easier to drive. They aren't heavy and isolate noise better than a DT770. If I just kept one, it would be the Ananda Stealth unless you need noise isolation, then it's a no brainer. You can power either with an Apple USB to 3.5mm adapter, unless you equalize and you'll need more power to compensate. I bought each for $349 and with some mild equalizing, they're excellent value for the money. I've had the Audivina and Arya Stealth, and for the price you get a really good value with either one.
If gaming and soundstage are important, Ananda Stealth though it leaks sound you can hang them up and use them for bookshelf speakers. The HE-10D has a big soundstage for a closed back, and with some mild eq to boost 600hz and maybe down at 2.5khz to bring down the treble 2db they turn into really versatile headphones, with really good isolation. Both are the same weight and comfortable all day, but the Ananda flat ski style headband is even more comfortable than the bar style HE-10D. If anyone shaves their head, the Ananda is a must. If noise isolation is needed, then the HE-10D is a no brainer. They both respond really well to mild equalizing.