Analysis paralysis

[FrantzM]

Hi
I will repeat for many, but for the OP...

An AVR, especially the better ones are the least understood, vilified and look-down-at, pieces of audio equipment. Most audiophiles consider an AVR for those "who are in HT".. Separates or integrated are for "real" audiophiles.

For the price of those, say a Denon ACR-X-3800, you get a lot. So much that it is almost an embarrassment of riches. And, the look-down being so pervasive, even seasoned audiophile do not realize how much powerful features some AVR provide, ready to be unleashed to , yes, tame the room in a decent, economical way.

Take the so-much maligned Audyssey. It is in fact a full spectrum Digital Room Correction system. It is also built in many (all?) Denon and Marantz. There are various level in Audyssey , the most powerful version is with the higher models , I know mine a 3400H (2018) has the most powerful version.
Audyssey when controlled/configured with the receiver GUI, doesn't look powerful.. when used with a $20.oo IOS (not sure that there is an Android version), you begin to understand the power of Audyssey. This takes another quantum-jump when Audyssey is controlled/configured with the Windows MultEQ-X software... Yes it cost $200.oo but it IME , the real deal. a supremely powerful DRC ready to tame the room in ways you would not have believed possible all that in an AVR..
which by the way comes with an FM Tuner, Internet Radio Tuner, a streamer, 7 or is it 9 amplifiers of decent power .. 107 wpc for the 3800 and I believe the 3800 supports DIRAC, another serious DRC and there are noise about the 3800 and its cousins, brothers, similars from the same stable, would be capable of running DIRAC ART... all that for in an AVR, Oh! It also comes with a measurements microphone...
And, as of today , Audyssey MultEQ-X can import measurements made with REW ...
The first thing that you would read in an Audio forum is to "treat' the room... In real world the audiophile cannot ... so... DRC and even if you were to treat the room. DRC when well applied is the single best improvement you can get in an audio system.

Now that the paeans have been sung :
Get a Denon AVR-X3800 about $1500,oo, but dips once in a while lower, we saw them at Adorama for $1000 this year for a small window of time..
Ge the IOSs Audyssey App $20.oo or better the Windows MultEQ-X for $200
A pair of decent speakers, say a pair off Revel M106 or a pair of Philharmonic Audio BMR Monitor for $2000.oo
Later you download REW (free) and acquire a UMik-1 for $125

Then you set this up, it will take some (a long time) then you are happy for a long while.

Peace.

 

[DeruDog]

Real world compromises keeps things interesting

I know I'd have an easier time getting acceptance for something like this if it looked "nice" which, for me leans strongly to that KEF LSX option (LSX rather than LS50 for a wireless approach). It's not purist, but it would sound and look pretty great.

I'd go further though and ask yourself if you are going to do any critical listening to music. If not, then you may well find that a SONOS implementation would work well, really well. Ease of use, measures surprisingly well - sounds good, looks good. Fit and forget, and enjoy.

Your call, and your priorities

It is a question I have been asking myself. We will only be at the apartment part of the time so will I really be listening critically there? I have a treated room at our house for that when not at the apartment.

At the apartment I will have more time, though. So time will tell.

It is a nice conundrum to have TBH

 

[DeruDog]

If i had your situation, i would get a MiniDSP Flex RCA and connect the TV using optical or RCA. This then acts as a capable and easy to use preamp, you can connect all kinds of devices to it, for example your wifes mobile bluetooth for her tunes. The box is small and nice, it has a good display and well sized volume knob, as well as a remote. You can also connect a subwoofer or use it's DSP functionality later.
I would then add a poweramp, something like a Fosi V3 with a 48v power supply, it can be hidden behind the TV or somewhere else.
Lastly you need speakers. I would either go with a pair of KEF LS50 (they are bass shy, but you can add a subwoofer later, very high WAF and small) or KEF R3 (used for maybe $800, medium WAF).
This should land you somewhere at $1200 to $1500.

I really like this idea. Thanks! I had not been thinking about those Fosi amps.

 

[DeruDog]

Nor does any Genelec. Room correction didnt seem to be part of the OP requirements. The extra for room correction would be the same for Genelec or LS50W, but cost wise the LS50W would likely score better with not much of a performance penalty.

I am all for room correction, but it is not for everybody as it is quite error prone for the non propeller head crowd...

Room EQ would definitely be nice but not sure whether I should lean in on that up front or save my money. It seems there are mixed opinions on whether great Spinorama results make up for what would be added by Room correction.

I ask myself what will be best in this room with windows, open on one side, listening near the back wall. Can I ignore room correction with better components, or focus on room correction and lesser speakers?

 

[Eetu]

I'd go for MiniDSP Flex + Genelec G Threes in white (if available where you live). Small footprint, great sound, room EQ, sub integration, bluetooth.. Also have to mention the auto on/off function on the Genelecs, wouldn't get anything without auto on/off anymore. Not sure how well this works on AVRs.

Other than that, if size is not an issue a Denon AVR and LS50 Meta is a great alternative as well. When it comes to sound quality I don't think you'd be disappointed with either option.

You'll benefit from room EQ below Schroeder (~200Hz) no matter what speakers you end up with since your room is going to mess with the low freqs anyways.

 

[dominikz]

It seems there are mixed opinions on whether great Spinorama results make up for what would be added by Room correction.

I ask myself what will be best in this room with windows, open on one side, listening near the back wall. Can I ignore room correction with better components, or focus on room correction and lesser speakers?

Components you choose unfortunately cannot replace room EQ. Room modes and SBIR are caused by the room dimensions and layout, as well as the location of loudspeakers and listeners in it, and no loudspeaker can compensate for all possible combinations of these effects.
If you happen to be lucky to have a situation where room effects are not causing audible resonances/suckouts (unlikely) then you may not need room EQ - but that would again have little to do with the audio equipment, i.e. such a situation would be beneficial to any loudspeaker.
If I had to choose, personally I'd rather have cheaper (well-measuring) gear with room EQ, than more expensive (well-measuring) gear without it. This is because IME room EQ done well often offers a really big sound quality improvement.

That all said, Sonos may indeed be a pretty good option, depending on your needs and expectations.

 

[Multicore]

Room EQ would definitely be nice but not sure whether I should lean in on that up front or save my money. It seems there are mixed opinions on whether great Spinorama results make up for what would be added by Room correction.

Other way around, isn't it? You need smooth directivity for room EQ to work.

 

[dominikz]

Other way around, isn't it? You need smooth directivity for room EQ to work.

Actually in the low frequencies (where room EQ makes sense), most front-firing loudspeakers are close to omnidirectional anyway.
Smooth directivity is however beneficial for loudspeaker response correction (i.e. EQ in the mid and high frequencies).

 

[DeruDog]

Hi
I will repeat for many, but for the OP...

An AVR, especially the better ones are the least understood, vilified and look-down-at, pieces of audio equipment. Most audiophiles consider an AVR for those "who are in HT".. Separates or integrated are for "real" audiophiles.

For the price of those, say a Denon ACR-X-3800, you get a lot. So much that it is almost an embarrassment of riches. And, the look-down being so pervasive, even seasoned audiophile do not realize how power an AVR possess, ready to be unleashed to , yes, tame the room in a very decent, economical way.

Take the so-much maligned Audyssey. It is in fact a full spectrum Digital Room Correction system. It is also built in many (all?) Denon and Marantz. There are various level in Audyssey , the most powerful version is with the higher models , I know mine a 3400H (2018) has the most powerful version.
Audyssey when controlled/configured with the receiver GUI, doesn't look powerful.. when used with a $20.oo IOS (not sure that there is an Android version), you begin to understand the power of Audyssey. This takes another quantum-jump when Audyssey is controlled/configured with the Windows MultEQ-X software... Yes it cost $200.oo but it IME , the real deal. a supremely powerful DRC ready to tame the room in ways you would not have believed possible all that in an AVR..
which by the way comes with an FM Tuner, Internet Radio Tuner, a streamer, 7 or is it 9 amplifiers of decent power .. 107 wpc for the 3800 and I believe the 3800 supports DIRAC, another serious DRC and there are noise about the 3800 and its cousins, brothers, similars from the same stable, would be capable of running DIRAC ART... all that for in an AVR, Oh! It also comes with a measurements microphone...
And, as of today , Audyssey MultEQ-X can import measurements made with REW ...
The first thing that you would read in an Audio forum is to "treat' the room... In real world the audiophile cannot ... so... DRC and even if you were to treat the room. DRC when well applied is the single best improvement you can get in an audio system.

Now that the paeans have been sung :
Get a Denon AVR-X3800 about $1500,oo, but dips once in a while lower, we saw them at Adorama for $1000 this year for a small window of time..
Ge the IOSs Audyssey App $20.oo or better the Windows MultEQ-X for $200
A pair of decent speakers, say a pair off Revel M106 or a pair of Philharmonic Audio BMR Monitor for $2000.oo
Later you download REW (free) and acquire a UMik-1 for $125

Then you set this up, it will take some (a long time) then you are happy for a long while.

Peace.

The great thing about this reply is that is how I have my listening room/home Thayer set up. I even built BMR Philharmonitors last year with a center channel. It sounds amazing. Just trying to figure out what to do with the apartment.

Ideally no big ugly AVR, but I might be resigned to that.

I just love that you mentioned the Philharmonitor