An audio engineer explains why Dolby Atmos Music is “definitely going to supersede stereo”

[Helicopter]

Ok ok... here ya go

 

[AdamG247]

Helicopter

, that looks showroom New! Incredible. I jumped on the Quad train but no gear survived the dozens of moves in my life. Precious little did actually. We ended up with a house rule that I regret to this day. Any box that remained unopened from the last move was disposed of. We literally moved every 4 years. Great job holding on to that.

 

[JeffS7444]

While I've been pretty impressed by what I've heard from Atmos soundtracks to date, the notion of it replacing stereo any time soon shall remain but a fantasy of the Dolby Corporation and it's shareholders, I think.

Besides reasons already cited (proprietary format, licensing and startup costs) it's not clear to me how they'd deliver demonstrable benefits to the vast numbers of listeners who use phone + inexpensive headphones, with Airpods Pro not really qualifying as "inexpensive".

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I've not heard it, but lots and lots of people say the Atmos upmix of stereo works far better than any of the prior upmixing algorithms. See that is the thing, you don't need to make your RTR Atmos. Atmos will take the stereo and make it Atmos-like.

Ah, but I'm a purist and I want my Atmos to be native to the reel to reel tape machines. I don't want all that aftermarket hocus pocus interfering with the pure tape experience.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Ok ok... here ya go

View attachment 120639

Now, that is impressive.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

While I certainly don't argue about the benefit of Atmos for home theater, the reality with stereo is that with the current 3D encoding which is used on a great number of popular music recordings Atmos is essentially a moot point. Stereo with 3D processing can already create a soundfield which completely envelops the listener - around, behind and above - much like binaural does with headphones (and this processing works just as well with headphones, if not better). And no extra hardware is required, no extra speakers, nothing, nada. More to the point, the audio industry is already struggling to attract customers to higher quality audio with the competition from phones, bluetooth speakers, soundbars and the like. And the powers that be really thinks that a significant number of these people are going to be OK with installing speakers all over the room and expensive multichannel amplifiers and the requisite processors? REALLY?????

Sorry, just like with the graveyard of discarded surround formats of the past which "were absolutely going to make stereo obsolete", this ain't gonna happen folks.

 

[AdamG247]

However, in this case Atmos is not an exclusive Music only format. It has been coupled to what undeniably is the leading Sound format for Movies and some penetration in Tv. So the value proposition has a higher return for the investment. As you can now use the same technology and equipment for Music, Tv and Movie entertainment. So in the regard Atmos has made solid progress as the format of choice in Movies. How that connected segment may help bolster the the momentum into the Music industry is important to at the very least consider.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

How that connected segment may help bolster the the momentum into the Music industry is important to at the very least consider.

I really hate to sound like a curmudgeon, but this type of thing has been tried several times in the past (quad, discrete surround etc) with the same result; it was rejected by the vast number of purchasers. And the thing is, these past attempts were made when the audio industry in general was in much better shape, and 'serious' audio was much more relevant to the average consumer. At a time when the average consumer has less and less of an idea what stereo even is, and music listening in general becomes more of a passive activity rather than an actively engaged one, I think the time is long past when this type of thing can become enough of a commercial reality to make it sustainable.

Sure, companies and marketers can explore and consider Atmos as a music format all they want, but I truly believe that in the end, they will simply be throwing their money away - money which could be directed to ideas which have more of a chance of mass acceptance.

 

[AdamG247]

When I posted this, here at ASR, I knew their would be significant pushback from the 2 channel purists. And that’s fine, I get the arguments and agree with many of the Cons for the success of this format. Exactly as has been stated multiple times, people are bored with music delivery and consumption is dropping. The market is shrinking. I see this Atmos and the like a direct response to address and possibly reverse the downward trend. Trying to refresh the experience and get people excited about Music again. I for one am excited to embrace and support any organized effort to Make Music Great Again!

At some point in the near future, there will be some form of “expansive sound” from all around the listeners. It’s pretty inevitable as technology advances and matures. 360, 3D, Atmos, Auro, DTS, etc. There is plenty of evidence that this is a growing segment of Audio and Video delivery improvement. As stated by the Author, it’s time for Music delivery to evolve beyond 2 channels.

 

[chelgrian]

At some point in the near future, there will be some form of “expansive sound” from all around the listeners. It’s pretty inevitable as technology advances and matures.

There has been for a while now just not for music. The standard game engines (Unreal and Unity) have supported ambisonic content for a while now and placing sound spices at coordinates within a field. They are expecting the listener to be using headphones with a Head Related Transfer Function for listening.

Separately sound for VR is usually mixed as ambisonic. The reason for this is that the entire sound field can be rotated using feedback from head tracking in a way that is impossible for the hybrid bed+object model Atmos is using. For 360 video both Facebook and YouTube are using ambisonics.

 

[Leporello]

Actually, in consumer audio market 2 channel stereo is still going strong because of headphones. But in living room audio mono is definitely going to supersede stereo. Just think of the hugely popular blutetooth based lifestyle systems that are effectively monophonic.

We have had stereophonic systems and recordings for more than sixty years. But many an average consumer still thinks stereo is handy because you can put one speaker in the kitchen and the other one in the living room.

 

[tomelex]

I always say, listen to your system in mono for a few days then listen in stereo, you will immediately notice how sort of "artificial and weird" it is. Then after a few songs you don't notice anymore, as you are used to this effect for most of your life.

We need to move on from stereo, I always thought at least as a first step start encoding binaural into the digital music we receive so those on phones can select it, it will sound lots better than stereo on headphones even though it is recorded as a "general" function and not specific to any one individual. That would be easier to do for any studios with virtually no real up front costs.

The other idea I had was to put a chip in your playback device, that had dolby program in it or whatever they come up with that you can invoke that would "de compose" the normal stereo and turn it into ambi or whatever you wanted, then those that want this "better than stereo" stuff can pay for it, but how many would do it, the past suggests not too many. Even this idea has been tried, and gained very little traction.

But stereo, OMG, we need to move on somehow, sometime. It was a brilliant idea at the time, but we don't drive model "T"s anymore.

Multi channel has been here for a long time, but few have it, and few choices of material, and this generation is the headphone generation, so lets get the two channel system updated somehow to give folks a better headphone experience.

 

[gene_stl]

At Axpona 2019 I attended the Dolby Atmos room which was set up in conjunction with Emotiva. I also attended several other Atmos setups.
I really really wanted to like it. It just didn't move me at all. I mean yeah , OK a helicopter or rain hitting leaves overhead. But I still listen to movies in stereo. They did not demonstrate any musical content. I did not become aroused at all.

And I am enough of an equipment and electronics junkie, that I have considered how I could install Atmos in my listening room. But I would be unlikely to do it, unless there was some "natively Atmos recorded " content, if such a thing can even exist, and be better than 5.1 or 7.1. A studio upmix from master tapes recorded ages ago, doesn't appeal to me very much. Upmixing at home has gotten pretty sophisticated in the last 20 to 25 years.

 

[Leporello]

I always say, listen to your system in mono for a few days then listen in stereo, you will immediately notice how sort of "artificial and weird" it is.

Of course. But switching from stereo to mono produces another kind of weird effect. So which one is the right kind of experience?

 

[sergeauckland]

I can understand the appeal of surround formats for music, but I can't see any benefit for movies as long as they're on a single screen in front. I find the disconnect between the visual and the audio disturbing. If screens wrapped all around, including height, then fine, the sound field and visual field would match, but with current technology of a small screen and wide surround sound doesn't work for me.

So, I don't get what Atmos is trying to do unless they do the same for pictures as for sound.

S

 

[sal]

Here’s the article: I personally love ATMOS for Movies and have explored the limited sampling of ATMOS Music available on Tidal and Amazon. I find it different and rewarding as a change of pace. What say You?

https://www.musicradar.com/news/an-...music-is-definitely-going-to-supersede-stereo

IMO, it’s not going to happen. Whatever happened to Quadrophonic? There will be a small sample of atmos music, just like there was a small sample of 5.1 music (Pink Floyd released a chunk of their music in 5.1, I’m not aware of anyone else)

Music these days is made for cheap headphones.

 

[oursmagenta]

While I certainly don't argue about the benefit of Atmos for home theater, the reality with stereo is that with the current 3D encoding which is used on a great number of popular music recordings Atmos is essentially a moot point. Stereo with 3D processing can already create a soundfield which completely envelops the listener - around, behind and above - much like binaural does with headphones (and this processing works just as well with headphones, if not better). And no extra hardware is required, no extra speakers, nothing, nada. More to the point, the audio industry is already struggling to attract customers to higher quality audio with the competition from phones, bluetooth speakers, soundbars and the like. And the powers that be really thinks that a significant number of these people are going to be OK with installing speakers all over the room and expensive multichannel amplifiers and the requisite processors? REALLY?????

Sorry, just like with the graveyard of discarded surround formats of the past which "were absolutely going to make stereo obsolete", this ain't gonna happen folks.

Technically, using object-based encoding allows to render with a better accuracy an approximation of a 3D sound-field using two sound sources.
You can take into account the position of the two speakers, the room, etc ... and optimize the whole response.

If I can go with an analogy, say you only have a stereoscopic view from a given viewpoint, with a certain separation between the eyes. It will be possible but not very accurate to extrapolate a second stereoscopic view from a different viewpoint and a different separation between the eyes.
Now if you have the whole 3D scene at your disposal, well it becomes a non-issue, you can re-render at will without loosing any accuracy.

Another point is that theoretically you can optimize for the whole response with any given configuration/placement of any number of sound source.
You would be able to do tri-phonic for instance (3 speakers in equilateral configuration), or tet-phonic (4 speakers in pyramidal configuration) etc ...

 

[AdamG247]

Of course. But switching from stereo to mono produces another kind of weird effect. So which one is the right kind of experience?

The one you like is the right kind.

 

[Thunder22]

DTS 5.1 music cd's were actually quite good. I still pop in Marvin Gaye & The Eagles versions every once in a while. I find lack of good content to be the most disappointing thing as it relates to alternative formats.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

A grand piano is no exactly point source. How does Atmos handle that? Can an instrument consist of multiple points? Like putting 3 mics around and into the piano and then call this three close point sources? Same for the drums: one point source for each single percussion instrument?