Amplification and The HE6se v2

[Carlo2AC]

When it is broken like that and you have warranty you can send it back.
You'll clearly hear it if it is that broken. IME hifiman usually has excellent channel matching.
Just make sure you buy one that has a return option.

Yeah, if it isn't something i can't fix myself sending it back is quite scary considering how are tariffs in my country

FWIW I have the Adorama HE6SE v2 and the Atom+ now. Full volume at max gain is still not loud enough without any EQ whatsoever. According to the Headphonesty power calculator with the worst case scenario numbers of appx. 79.5 db/mW sensitivity (converted) measured by Amir and 64 ohm impedance the headphone should be peaking at 106.5 db SPL at about 5.7 V and 500 mW from the Atom but I'm not hearing it. So the sensitivity may be even lower.

Edit: I meant 106.5 dB, not 116.5.

Thank you friends, you saved me a few hundred dollars.. or maybe just delayed them from being spent into something else ahahahahaha

 

[pkane]

FWIW I have the Adorama HE6SE v2 and the Atom+ now. Full volume at max gain is still not loud enough without any EQ whatsoever. According to the Headphonesty power calculator with the worst case scenario numbers of appx. 79.5 db/mW sensitivity (converted) measured by Amir and 64 ohm impedance the headphone should be peaking at 106.5 db SPL at about 5.7 V and 500 mW from the Atom but I'm not hearing it. So the sensitivity may be even lower.

Edit: I meant 106.5 dB, not 116.5.

On the balanced headphone output of RME ADI-2 Pro FS I get just loud enough to stay in the low power amp mode with HE6se v2 with a few dB of volume to spare. This is with about 5dB for EQ. On occasion I do need the higher power mode, but not with most recordings.

 

[Jimbob54]

On the balanced headphone output of RME ADI-2 Pro FS I get just loud enough to stay in the low power amp mode with HE6se v2 with a few dB of volume to spare. This is with about 5dB for EQ. On occasion I do need the higher power mode, but not with most recordings.

I can go just about loud enough on the single ended rme non pro in high power mode with about 4db for eq but prefer to run mine off my thx 789 when I just max mid gain (with the rme down 2 - 5 dB to allow some in listening fine tuning)

 

[pkane]

I can go just about loud enough on the single ended rme non pro in high power mode with about 4db for eq but prefer to run mine off my thx 789 when I just max mid gain (with the rme down 2 - 5 dB to allow some in listening fine tuning)

I'll try THX 789 at some point, but don't seem to need it with ADI2 pro easily capable of handling these, especially in high power mode. I do have them hooked up to balanced headphone output.

 

[Jimbob54]

I'll try THX 789 at some point, but don't seem to need it with ADI2 pro easily capable of handling these, especially in high power mode. I do have them hooked up to balanced headphone output.

Yes, sorry was just sharing my experience of the single ended non pro rme, I can understand the balanced pro being ample and realised that's how you hooked the he6 up.

Obviously for a listening only consumer I couldn't justify the rme Pro costs just to get the extra juice but in your world I'm sure the balanced out is just a bonus feature on top of all the interface wizardry.

 

[Luke Lemke]

Just to add to the discussion, I own the HE-6V2 (adorama version) and I drive them with my Magni heresy. They can drive the HE-6 to high enough volumes for my ears, even with EQ in the bass, but the volume knob is close to Max.

You've also mentioned you've tried the Sundara before. I didn't feel the HE-6 was a step-up from the Sundara (both cans with EQ). So, if you own a Sundara, you probably don't need the HE-6 IMO.

 

[duplissi]

Just want to toss my experience with my pair of HE6SE-V2s from Adorama. TLDR, they are indeed power hungry.

I bought them back in Feb when they were on sale for $699. At the time for dac/amp I was using the LDAC DX3 Pro (one with 10ohm output), and I also have a SoundBlasterX G6. Both could drive them to listenable levels, but the Soundblaster suffered from distorion and clipping sooner than the DX3 did. While the DX3 faired a bit better (no brainer, lol), it still couldn't drive the HE6SE's to adequate volumes (IMO).

Dejected I then ordered a THX 789 (they were on sale at the time for $250). Now I run my DX3 Pro in dac mode (which is SE not balanced), to the 789. Headphones are connected to the balanced output. I use the 3rd gain level, and most often listen with the knob between 11 o-clock and 3 o-clock (depending on mood or song). They become unbearably and painfully loud at max volume, so I suppose I could probably do with medium gain, but I like having the headroom on the knob. Some songs demand to be heard loud, you know? lol.

Now, with this combo, I naively consider myself super close to "Endgame" (eventuall I'd like to feed the 789 via a balanced dac). Everything sounds fantastic with these. These are energetic, fun headphones with amazing detail. The sub bass.... hnnnnng. I have Dekoni sheepskins on them, and I fashioned an EQ profile for them similar to Amirm's.

According to drop's specs on the 789:

Balanced Output

• Output power: 6000 mW, 16 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
• Output power: 6000 mW, 32 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
• Output power: 800 mW, 300 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)
• Output power: 400 mW, 600 ohms, <1% THD (watts per channel)

At the moment I don't have anything more powerful to drive them with, and I don't really feel like trying to rig them up to my sony 7.1 receiver, but given that, I don't think the sound "opening up" by using something as absurd as a speaker amp is true. They do need power, but nothing as fantastical and absurd as a speaker amp.

Would be nice if someone who has the capability could test, but I think that's a big ask for just one hp.

 

[tential]

Topping l50 is your cheapest solution. It's not ideal to spend more money, I'd just get it and see, but if you do feel it's lacking than an l50 should fix it.

Amir has a chart saying it needed a lot of power on his review of it.

The topping stack(add in e50, edit, actually, a d10 balanced would be your cheapest bet) looks like a good solution if you want a balance dac to go with it. That seems like the new cheapest price to Performance ratio solution, and it looks like that was what they were going for. That was my plan for getting this headphone, I've been looking at it for a long time planning how I would set it up and now that this amp is available it significantly lowered the cost.

I just also really want an m17 sadly. I really want portable playback and I don't know if topping is ever going to get into that game. I really want to lay back in my recliner and listen to music with the actual controls directly on me.

I haven't bought these headphones because I'm waiting for amir to review the Dan Clark open back because he has not touched a single one of those yet but all the closed backs have tested very well. If I'm lucky, the aeons will be good, and those are easier to power, so that I can use something mobile to power it. I really can't spend that kind of money without knowing what the competition is. I don't want to collect headphones I just want to know I have two good pairs I can keep forever and having already bought something that wasn't tested it's going to bug me not knowing how it performs against a known quantity

 

[watchnerd]

Using the Oratory EQ profile, which has a lot of bass EQ, and playing Daft Punk's "Random Access Memories" at moderately l loud volume, I can clip my Schiit Mjolnir 2 on high gain, which is rated for 5W into 50 ohms.

The same EQ applied to a jazz album doesn't clip the amp.

 

[PeteDzi]

Hello everone,
I have a question regarding amplification for my HE6SE v2
I currently drive mine using an RME ADI-2 DAC FS, and I think it sounds great,
however, I do wonder whether I can achieve even better sound, if I upgrade my amplification

Currently I boost the lower bass by about 6db, using the ADI-2's built in PEQ
When listening loud, I very, very rarely listen louder than at -10db, in high power mode

If I did upgrade the amlifier, my short listed choices would be:
RME ADI-2 PRO FS
Schiit jotunheim 2
Topping A30Pro
Topping A90
THX 789

I am not interested in using public address systems powered by their own nuclear power plants, because I want to retain a compact desktop setup.

My qestion is to those members who tried these cans with both RME ADI-2 DAC and one of the above listed amps, or something close in size.
Are there big gains to be made by getting one of these amps? If yes, what are they? What is the subjective difference?

Regards

 

[Jimbob54]

Hello everone,
I have a question regarding amplification for my HE6SE v2
I currently drive mine using an RME ADI-2 DAC FS, and I think it sounds great,
however, I do wonder whether I can achieve even better sound, if I upgrade my amplification

Currently I boost the lower bass by about 6db, using the ADI-2's built in PEQ
When listening loud, I very, very rarely listen louder than at -10db, in high power mode

If I did upgrade the amlifier, my short listed choices would be:
RME ADI-2 PRO FS
Schiit jotunheim 2
Topping A30Pro
Topping A90
THX 789

I am not interested in using public address systems powered by their own nuclear power plants, because I want to retain a compact desktop setup.

My qestion is to those members who tried these cans with both RME ADI-2 DAC and one of the above listed amps, or something close in size.
Are there big gains to be made by getting one of these amps? If yes, what are they? What is the subjective difference?

Regards

If you're not maxing the rme, you won't get better sound from different amps.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I am able to drive the HE6SEv2 quite effectively with a Monolith THX887 and with an RME ADI-2 PRO FS BE. Moreover, I would expect there would be very little benefit—if any at all—compared to your RME if you are not maxing out the volume on the ADI-2 DAC.

My audio chain is setup such that I am able to easily switch between a Balanced input chain and an SE input chain on the THX887. Either way (Balanced or SE input chain), I am perfectly fine listening on either the THX's Level 2 or Level 3 gain setting — I flip between the gain based on desired loudness so that the volume POT is never below 9:00 or above 3:00 to minimize risk of POT-induced channel imbalance. On the RME ADI-2 Pro, I use their auto-ref settings to ramp up gain as I increase volume.

Input Chains: In all cases, fed by PC (e.g. Spotify) at 100% volume, via a 2m USB cable (Lindy Antra Line), to a Topping D90 in DAC mode. No EQ.

Bal (XLR out / in): Topping D90 > Monolith THX > HE6SEv2*
SE (RCA out / in): Topping D90 > Ashly LX308b Mixer (at reference level) [monitor out-SE] > Monolith THX > HE6SEv2*
SE/BAL (RCA out / XLR in): Topping D90 > Ashly LX308b Mixer (at reference level) [master out-BAL] > ADI-2 PRO Phones (3/4) > HE6SEv2**

Out = what is leaving Topping D90.
In = what is entering the THX887 or ADI-2 PRO

* using stock 4-pin "balanced" DIN cable
* using stock TRS to 4-pin DIN adapter, and stock 4-stock 4-pin "balanced" DIN cable

 

[PeteDzi]

Thank you very much for your answers.
It seems that leaves no other option but to finally sit back, enjoy the equipment I've got, and stop fretting about upgrades.

Hmmm. I suppose that is both good and bad news!

 

[NervousEnergy]

I am able to drive the HE6SEv2 quite effectively with a Monolith THX887 and with an RME ADI-2 PRO FS BE. Moreover, I would expect there would be very little benefit—if any at all—compared to your RME if you are not maxing out the volume on the ADI-2 DAC.

My audio chain is setup such that I am able to easily switch between a Balanced input chain and an SE input chain on the THX887. Either way (Balanced or SE input chain), I am perfectly fine listening on either the THX's Level 2 or Level 3 gain setting — I flip between the gain based on desired loudness so that the volume POT is never below 9:00 or above 3:00 to minimize risk of POT-induced channel imbalance. On the RME ADI-2 Pro, I use their auto-ref settings to ramp up gain as I increase volume.

Input Chains: In all cases, fed by PC (e.g. Spotify) at 100% volume, via a 2m USB cable (Lindy Antra Line), to a Topping D90 in DAC mode. No EQ.

Bal (XLR out / in): Topping D90 > Monolith THX > HE6SEv2*
SE (RCA out / in): Topping D90 > Ashly LX308b Mixer (at reference level) [monitor out-SE] > Monolith THX > HE6SEv2*
SE/BAL (RCA out / XLR in): Topping D90 > Ashly LX308b Mixer (at reference level) [master out-BAL] > ADI-2 PRO Phones (3/4) > HE6SEv2**

Out = what is leaving Topping D90.
In = what is entering the THX887 or ADI-2 PRO

* using stock 4-pin "balanced" DIN cable
* using stock TRS to 4-pin DIN adapter, and stock 4-stock 4-pin "balanced" DIN cable

Also bought an HE6sev2 on the Adorama sale and grabbed the THX887 to drive it based entirely on the ASR test/review article. It's sublime. I haven't sampled/auditioned a ton of different can/amp combinations, but enough to know I doubt I can beat the sound quality of this combo for the money I paid.

 

[PeteDzi]

Also bought an HE6sev2 on the Adorama sale and grabbed the THX887 to drive it based entirely on the ASR test/review article. It's sublime. I haven't sampled/auditioned a ton of different can/amp combinations, but enough to know I doubt I can beat the sound quality of this combo for the money I paid.

I don't think you can get a better sound for 2x or even 3x the price!

 

[PeteDzi]

I'm still unsure whether to get a more powerful amp (to supplement my RME ADI-2 DAC).
Topping A30Pro, Thx789 and Thx887 can all be had for not very much money, and I may be tempted to get one and have a play
I would really want a power amp, because the RME's volume adjustement has perfect channel balance.
So if I get any of the above, I am tempted to remove or bypass their volume pot, to "convert" them to a power amp.

Have any other members done that? are there any downsides to this approach? Other than losing warranty, of course?

 

[Jimbob54]

I'm still unsure whether to get a more powerful amp (to supplement my RME ADI-2 DAC).
Topping A30Pro, Thx789 and Thx887 can all be had for not very much money, and I may be tempted to get one and have a play
I would really want a power amp, because the RME's volume adjustement has perfect channel balance.
So if I get any of the above, I am tempted to remove or bypass their volume pot, to "convert" them to a power amp.

Have any other members done that? are there any downsides to this approach? Other than losing warranty, of course?

I think you're overthinking it. By all means get one of the amps (The 789 at its often sale $199 is hard to beat) but not sure why you would need to mod it other than as a hobby thing. Just leave the volume dial fully up in whatever gain you choose (I run the 6SE with RME at nearly full output XLR ) on medium gain at around 9 o clock on the 789 dial) and off you go.

 

[PeteDzi]

I think you're overthinking it. By all means get one of the amps (The 789 at its often sale $199 is hard to beat) but not sure why you would need to mod it other than as a hobby thing. Just leave the volume dial fully up in whatever gain you choose (I run the 6SE with RME at nearly full output XLR ) on medium gain at around 9 o clock on the 789 dial) and off you go.

Thanks!
I tend to overthink nearly everything!

 

[rcstevensonaz]

I'm still unsure whether to get a more powerful amp (to supplement my RME ADI-2 DAC).

You do not need to. But I would, and I did. My comments are primarily based on the fact you have the ADI-2 DAC, and not the ADI-2 PRO. That said, I have the PRO, and I still added a Monolith THX887 (for reason 2 below, not due to reason 1).

Reason 1: The headphone out power on the ADI-2 DAC will be a bit lower, and it does not support "balanced" headphone out. For anything other than a power-hungry headphone (such as the HE6SE), this reason is a total non-issue... the headphone amp in the RME ADI-2 DAC is more than enough.

Reason 2: Convenience of using multiple headphones (aka, "audiophile" first-world problems). I leave my HE6SE plugged into the 4-DIN port on my THX887, and I keep my day-to-day HD600's plugged into the RME ADI-2 DAC. And whenever I want to listen to my Focal Clears, I either just plug them into the SE slot on my TXH887 (no need to unplug the clears), or more frequently, I just swap out the HD600 for the Clear on the RME PRO.

Note: one benefit of routing to the headphone amp via a device such as the RME ADI-2 DAC / PRO is that you can use the 5-band equalizer in the RME, and just switch between pre-loaded EQ profiles depending on which headphone you are listening to... regardless of whether it is plugged into the RME or the external headphone amp.

Topping A30Pro, Thx789 and Thx887 can all be had for not very much money, and I may be tempted to get one and have a play

All would work. Personally, I have been extremely happy with the Monolith THX887; they are often now on sale around $249 (US). The A30Pro looks pretty solid as well.

I would really want a power amp, because the RME's volume adjustement has perfect channel balance.
So if I get any of the above, I am tempted to remove or bypass their volume pot, to "convert" them to a power amp.
Have any other members done that? are there any downsides to this approach? Other than losing warranty, of course?

I don't think this gains you much, if anything (pun was accidental). On the Monolith THX887, I adjust the gain switch (Level 1, 2, or 3) to put the volume into the range of what I want to listen to, so that the volume POT stays in the sweet spot of 9:00 to 3:00. For "engaged" listening to music on the HE6SE's, I usually have the gain set on 3. However, often I will want to have lower volume (Level 2 gain), and occasionally even drop the gain switch down to Level 1 when I just want background listening.

So for me, gain settings on the THX887 achieves the channel balance goal, even at the softest volumes; no need to risk screwing up a perfectly good RME ADI-2 DAC.

 

[PeteDzi]

You do not need to. But I would, and I did. My comments are primarily based on the fact you have the ADI-2 DAC, and not the ADI-2 PRO. That said, I have the PRO, and I still added a Monolith THX887 (for reason 2 below, not due to reason 1).

Reason 1: The headphone out power on the ADI-2 DAC will be a bit lower, and it does not support "balanced" headphone out. For anything other than a power-hungry headphone (such as the HE6SE), this reason is a total non-issue... the headphone amp in the RME ADI-2 DAC is more than enough.

Reason 2: Convenience of using multiple headphones (aka, "audiophile" first-world problems). I leave my HE6SE plugged into the 4-DIN port on my THX887, and I keep my day-to-day HD600's plugged into the RME ADI-2 DAC. And whenever I want to listen to my Focal Clears, I either just plug them into the SE slot on my TXH887 (no need to unplug the clears), or more frequently, I just swap out the HD600 for the Clear on the RME PRO.

Note: one benefit of routing to the headphone amp via a device such as the RME ADI-2 DAC / PRO is that you can use the 5-band equalizer in the RME, and just switch between pre-loaded EQ profiles depending on which headphone you are listening to... regardless of whether it is plugged into the RME or the external headphone amp.


All would work. Personally, I have been extremely happy with the Monolith THX887; they are often now on sale around $249 (US). The A30Pro looks pretty solid as well.



I don't think this gains you much, if anything (pun was accidental). On the Monolith THX887, I adjust the gain switch (Level 1, 2, or 3) to put the volume into the range of what I want to listen to, so that the volume POT stays in the sweet spot of 9:00 to 3:00. For "engaged" listening to music on the HE6SE's, I usually have the gain set on 3. However, often I will want to have lower volume (Level 2 gain), and occasionally even drop the gain switch down to Level 1 when I just want background listening.

So for me, gain settings on the THX887 achieves the channel balance goal, even at the softest volumes; no need to risk screwing up a perfectly good RME ADI-2 DAC.

Thanks, there is lots of stuff to ponder here!
Just out of interest, is there any particular reason why you went for THX 887, as opposed to any of the others?