@Amir - One question for you, sir!

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

You still do not explain why the sound from guitar and piano are clearly differences although they have the same measurements.

I mean...how are you supposed to respond to something like this??

 

[Jimbob54]

I mean...how are you supposed to respond to something like this??

I would say "dont"- but I did......

I'm not sure, but somebody may have been on a wind up

 

[Vict0r]

A lack of necessary knowledge and insight into the subject matter, combined with the stubborn need to justify and defend the expensive purchase someone just made (because it's always hard to admit you got fooled and wasted money on what is basically e-waste), makes discussions like these nigh impossible, I've noticed. It never ends well.

I can make comparisons to how most religions work, but I won't. Although I guess I just did.

 

[Ducnguyen2k10]

You picked a funny thread to jump into then .

You have a good day now .

Do you guys not recognize that user has just registered today? Such a coincidence, isn’t it?
I doubt that he actually from the fb group where it was started.
As always, I also learned so much from you guys! Best thanks!

 

[DonR]

I can make comparisons to how most religions work, but I won't. Although I guess I just did.

Hence the abundant use of Hitchens' Razor in the thread.

 

[Jimbob54]

Do you guys not recognize that user has just registered today? Such a coincidence, isn’t it?
I doubt that he actually from the fb group where it was started.
Anyways, I also learned so much from you guys! Best thanks!

The "new member" tag under his name was a clue....

 

[muslhead]

Hence the abundant use of Hitchens' Razor in the thread.

Thanks for bringing this up. I did not know its name. I am now better armed for future disagreements

 

[Ducnguyen2k10]

An ethernet switch is not an audio device. It is not capable of producing any of those things. Its job is to convey digital information only that way later gets converted to analog. In that transmission, it can only do one of two things wrong:

1. Send the wrong bits. This simply doesn't happen and if it did, you would know it with interruption of music or static. I have repeatedly shown that home networks are completely reliable on this basis with no data loss.

2. Noise. Such noise has to go from the switch to the streamer and from the streamer to DAC. This path has many filters in it and at any rate, any half decent DAC has extreme immunity to such noise as it exists in other inputs to it (e.g. USB).

Both of the above factors were tested in my measurements. No reduction of noise was observed. Nor was any bit wrong (or you would see massive distortion).

We are not making music here. We are just trying to play it. So what music has in it, is not our concern. It all becomes digital data stored in a server, waiting to be transmitted as digital data. We only worry about transparently playing this stream. If the switch has done anything whatsoever to audio signal as explained above, my measurements would easily show them.

Bottom line, your poster is a plumber thinking your body works the same way and is giving you medical advice! He is not even in the same planet when it comes to understanding what this device in the specific does, and how these systems work in general. Please don't listen to him unless you go to a plumber when there is something wrong with you.

As noted, the company needs to provide such measurements. Despite telling us this would be coming some two years ago, nothing has materialized. So if they can't show any impact to analog output of your sound, then you can be sure none exists. Don't waste money on stuff like this.

Thank you so much for your clear and swift response.
I always share the basic knownleage about how ethernet works, CRC checksum, how signal transported to keep data integrity, even how ethernet switch have galvanic isolation based on IEEE 802.3 standards shall surely keep everything downstream just fine without worrrying about noise and such. Yet many members in the fb group do not agree!
The guy, who gave the argument, is making “audio” switches with clock mod and linear power supply and selling these things to some members in the group.
I would say your measurement result and me sharing of basic knowleadge are damaging his income!
Anyways! He may also see your answer as well, yet I believe he still not convinced!

 

[staticV3]

He may also see your answer as well, yet I believe he still not convinced!

Why would Amir's words convince him? After all, he personally heard the improvements with better clocks and power supplies

 

[sergeauckland]

Why would Amir's words convince him? After all, he personally heard the improvements with better clocks and power supplies

And derives and income from hearing these improvements...
S.

 

[BDWoody]

He may also see your answer as well, yet I believe he still not convinced!

As long as YOU are convinced, that's the important part.

He's trying to grab your wallet!

 

[staticV3]

And derives and income from hearing these improvements...
S.

That's the sad part. A good chunk of snake oil vendors is probably convinced they're selling things of actual value, for a fair price.

 

[DanielT]

Wait here now, correct me if I'm wrong. Technically, sound is determined by (if I take through speakers):
FR on axes
Dispersion
Distortion + noise
Phase (absolute phase)
Time aspects

Then how to describe sound subjectively, how you to think it sounds can include about anything, everything and/or nothing. Timber, soundstage, fullness, softness, taste of, pepper and thyme with some salty sound and so on. Note I believe that anyone can describe how they experience sound the way they want. As long as the person does not try to make it something objective that everyone thinks it sounds like.

Is it called thyme ..? Now I became unsure..The language, as usual .... well that's true, I see now ..... together with garlic and lots of butter..I go to the grocery store immediately ...

 

[DonR]

Wait here now, correct me if I'm wrong. Technically, sound is determined by (if I take through speakers):
FR on axes
Dispersion
Distortion + noise
Phase (absolute phase)
Time aspects

Then how to describe sound subjectively, how you to think it sounds can include about anything, everything and/or nothing. Timber, soundstage, fullness, softness, taste of, pepper and thyme with some salty sound and so on. Note I believe that anyone can describe how they experience sound the way they want. As long as the person does not try to make it something objective that everyone thinks it sounds like.

All time information is encoded in the data stream. As long as the data is conveyed in full to the other end, there is no time information that is affected.

 

[SKBubba]

digital audio fb group .... this guy

OK, then.

 

[blueone]

Thank you so much for your clear and swift response.
I always share the basic knownleage about how ethernet works, CRC checksum, how signal transported to keep data integrity, even how ethernet switch have galvanic isolation based on IEEE 802.3 standards shall surely keep everything downstream just fine without worrrying about noise and such. Yet many members in the fb group do not agree!
The guy, who gave the argument, is making “audio” switches with clock mod and linear power supply and selling these things to some members in the group.
I would say your measurement result and me sharing of basic knowleadge are damaging his income!
Anyways! He may also see your answer as well, yet I believe he still not convinced!

Do we really care? There are people who believe the earth is flat:

The flat-Earth conspiracy is spreading around the globe. Does it hide a darker core? | CNN

"I don't want to be a flat Earther," David Weiss says, his voice weary as he reflects on his personal awakening. "Would you wake up in the morning and want everyone to think you're an idiot?"

www.cnn.com

There are millions of people who believe in astrology.

There are millions of people who believe in psychics.

The fact that some non-technical people don't understand how Ethernet works is not surprising or alarming in the grand scheme of things. BTW, a CRC, a cyclic redundancy check, is different from a checksum. Ethernet uses a CRC (CRC32), IP and TCP use checksums. CRC is a more robust method than checksums for detecting errors.

 

[voodooless]

The fact that some non-technical people don't understand how Ethernet works is not surprising or alarming in the grand scheme of things. BTW, a CRC, a cyclic redundancy check, is different from a checksum. Ethernet uses a CRC (CRC32), IP and TCP use checksums. CRC is a more robust method than checksums for detecting errors.

TCP adds another checksum to the list. So your data is already checked three times before it leaves the lower OSI layers.

 

[DanielT]

All time information is encoded in the data stream. As long as the data is conveyed in full to the other end, there is no time information that is affected.

Well, thought more about the time aspect if you have subwoffers, for example, so the sound is delivered correctly. Sub-speakers. What is it called in English? Time delay settings?

 

[DonR]

Well, thought more about the time aspect if you have subwoffers, for example, so the sound is delivered correctly. Sub-speakers. What is it called in English? Time delay settings?

Makes no difference. All time information is encoded at the source. I am assuming the stream contains all channels since we are talking Ethernet.

 

[blueone]

TCP adds another checksum to the list. So your data is already checked three times before it leaves the lower OSI layers.

I mentioned TCP's checksum, and I agree with you.