After the hype of Chinese HiFi brands, what is the jury?

[delta76]

That is a possibility. But Topping is selling all 14 DACs right now.

it's just their product strategy. not specific for Topping nor audio, but rather Chinese manufacturers. keep releasing newer versions to flood the market. something for everyone.

 

[Sokel]

it's just their product strategy. not specific for Topping nor audio, but rather Chinese manufacturers. keep releasing newer versions to flood the market. something for everyone.

This hobby is gear oriented to some,they just love having new devices,no judgment to that.

Flooding the market as you correctly say makes it difficult for that kind of people as reselling value is a thing for them and new models make of the old ones hard to sell at a sensible price that represents the original one.
So...

 

[Mart68]

Can't vote - none of the options apply to me.

Hype cannot be real by definition
I was never into the hype so cannot get over it
I only have one Chinese company product in use (Topping E30) and has been fine for three years now so no concerns to address.

I've had 'issues' with equipment made in UK, U.S.A and Japan (forty years, lots of equipment, law of averages). Not specifically a Chinese issue.

Would I order something expensive from some foreign website with no realistic possibility of returning for a refund if there's a problem? No. But that's not specifically a Chinese issue either, just a lot of Chinese products happen to be available from such sources.

 

[SSS]

The hype for me seems to be here at ASR. Many entries are regarding Chinese or at least asian products. My opinion is, when technical data and look is sufficient and price is low than buy. And when it breaks, no repair, throw it away and buy a new one. This is not what I do, but I can understand it. Of course many brand name products are made in asia and China. Important is that brand name companies give at least warranty and if lucky also repair. Decades ago many TI and Motorola IC chips came from malaysia. And even Hewlett Packard had production facilities in asia, China I don't know. Truth is that production goes to where labor is cheap.

 

[Klonatans]

Talking about DAPs, this isn't hype as the high quality DAP market it is simply dominated by Chinese brands like iBasso, Fiio, Shanling, Cayin, Hiby, Hidizs, Questyle, Dethnonray, Lotoo etc. that more often than not offer better price performance compared to brands from elsewhere. There are some Korean brands like the very popular (and IMHO overpriced) Astell & Kern, Cowon and The Bit and a couple of Japanese ones like Onkyo or Sony. There's basicaly almost nothing from North America (maybe the now non-existent Pono Player) and Europe (only the bizarre and very expensive Altmann Tera Player comes to mind).

 

[TonyJZX]

i've had way way way more issues with made in japan and other 'prestige' brands

you wouldnt beleive me by I had a top of the range Marantz THX amp do a "Topping" moment

and the local distributors basically said that since its 2.5 yrs old and the warranty is 2 yrs then you're OOL

also since they sold handfuls they dont supply parts

but I'm a dumbass because I'm still a marantz fanboy

 

[Waxx]

The main reason why i'm hesitant, is the lack of support and respect for the EU consumer rights. The import is mostlyt grey, so no warranty or repair possibilities like it should be.

Quality wise, the Chinese can do what is done in the EU or the America's and Japan, but it's mainly bussiness practices that are the issue. For cheap items you can take the risk, but not for a few hundred or thousand euro's/dollars/...

There are brands who do it right btw, the Chinese tube amps builder LIne Magnetic does everything on bussiness level right. The gear is not what you like, and a lot is targetted to audiophools and very expensive, but does what is told and you get a legal import product with warranty and support like specified in EU rules and international rules. If brands like Topping or SMSL and others could do the same ...

 

[I know (almost) nothing]

I couldn’t find an appropriate poll choice either. I think it depends on your use case and personality. If you’re ok with disposable components. If you have component ADHD where you constantly tweak and swap and compare. If you’re not a set it and forget it person, then these inexpensive components are great and fun. If you want long term stability, customer service and consistency than its not a good fit.

 

[JSmith]

Wherever in the world the product is from... buy from local sellers/distributors so you're covered under your local consumer law or equivalent. Yes, it costs more... but not much more. Then when there is an issue there may be recourse available.

If one is going to cheap out to save and buy direct from overseas using standard postal services... accept the risk you chose.


JSmith

 

[CleanSound]

What else could you count as Chinese Hi FI? The Chinese owned but regarded as British brands, for example.

Products from companies based elsewhere, but manufactured in China, do they count? What about products made in other countries with a large percentage of Chinese made components? How about the KEF models made in the UK, when the parent company is Chinese?

This was on the OP:

Clarification: I am not talking about Chinese manufacturing, I am talking about HiFi brands that are Chinese in origin, where the corporate headquarter is in China, and the design and engineering are conducted physically in China and the businesses sells the products as their own brand.

How can KEF be a Chinese brand? It's clearly a UK brand. Being manufactured in China after being designed and engineered in the UK is called OEM manufacturing. Go back and read the OP, I gave specifics.

Are Hong Kong companies considered in the same way as those in other parts of China yet?

There is no black and white to this. I personally would say no, because HK has its own business and societal culture and it's integrated with the international market deeper and longer. And it does have different local business laws.

Would your answers be different if, say, we were discussing the now Korean owned JBL or Revel rather than Chinese owned companies?

Samsung may still own Harman, but Harman is headquartered in the US, day to day is run by Americans or by people living in America with American culture, business customs and local laws influencing their practices. The products are designed and engineered in America. Similar to Lenovo, which is a Chinese owned company.

 

[CleanSound]

Deeply flawed poll - I can't vote

Is the issue
* country of manufacture, or design

This was on the OP:

Clarification: I am not talking about Chinese manufacturing, I am talking about HiFi brands that are Chinese in origin, where the corporate headquarter is in China, and the design and engineering are conducted physically in China and the businesses sells the products as their own brand.

 

[Shiva]

I am curious if anyone has heard of the brand GZlozone? Some of their products are based on the Pass Aleph amps. They also have Class D amps as well.

Mono Single-ended Pure Class A Power Amplifier 30W Amp base on Pass Labs Aleph 3 | eBay

The sound is very good. The designer Nelson Pass also released the line and made it for many fans. Aleph 3 is one of them. Don't underestimate this 30W, It is not worse than those random marks of a few hundred watts.

www.ebay.com

 

[CleanSound]

I am curious if anyone has heard of the brand GZlozone? Some of their products are based on the Pass Aleph amps. They also have Class D amps as well.

Mono Single-ended Pure Class A Power Amplifier 30W Amp base on Pass Labs Aleph 3 | eBay

The sound is very good. The designer Nelson Pass also released the line and made it for many fans. Aleph 3 is one of them. Don't underestimate this 30W, It is not worse than those random marks of a few hundred watts.

www.ebay.com

This is a perfect example of IP theft and bootleg.

I'm not commenting on quality nor performance.

 

[Joe Smith]

My experiences have all been good with SMSL, Aiyima, Fosi over a ten year period. The products aren't perfect and I wish they would slow down, focus their efforts and make a smaller range of outstanding products (kind of like Schiit or JDS Labs in the US), but what they are delivering for the asking price is pretty darn good.

 

[JeremyFife]

This was on the OP:

Clarification: I am not talking about Chinese manufacturing, I am talking about HiFi brands that are Chinese in origin, where the corporate headquarter is in China, and the design and engineering are conducted physically in China and the businesses sells the products as their own brand.

I understood that. My point was, why pick on China; what make this a special case and what exactly are you trying to understand.
I have a Matrix Audio dac ... fits your criteria (I think), but I'm not sure its the kind of thing you are asking about.

 

[CleanSound]

I understood that. My point was, why pick on China; what make this a special case and what exactly are you trying to understand.

How did you arrived at me picking on China?

The topic so happens to be about Chinese brands

Are you saying if the topic was say Korean brands then it would be OK? How about UK brands? American brands? Japanese brands? Are you saying, it's ok to talk about any other brands but Chinese brands? Or are you saying it's not OK to talk about any brands from anywhere?

I have a Matrix Audio dac ... fits your criteria (I think), but I'm not sure its the kind of thing you are asking about.

You clearly didn't read the OP, go back and read it's I specifically mentioned Matrix Audio.

 

[CleanSound]

So a company, any company, has only X amount of time/resource to develop products.

Thus if Topping, as an example, produces say 30 products a year (a number I plucked out of my arse) across its range (DAC's, Amp's, etc) then thats a lot of churn, a lot of "lets get product X out the door and move on to product Y".

This means, potentially, that things get missed... lack of time to do extended longevity testing, lack of time to really nail down design features that promote reliability etc.

Look at the Topping HS01/HS02 USB cleansers. The HS02 didnt really come out that much after the HS01... and the price difference isnt that much so why waste time and energy designing TWO devices that do the same thing (although the HS01 has some USB type limitations). Just take your time, and design a single product that covers all the bases.

The architectural issue I see with many of these brands is to cut cost they use the smallest possible chassis which then means you have limited space for all the I/O options, hence multiple versions of essentially the same device PLUS it means devices that potentially run hot (amps), run really hot cause of a lack of chassis space.

Even the HS01/02 devices run hot.. which is a real head scratcher.

Summary: product churn means a lack of focus which means something must give.

Peter

PS... Now brands like Denafrips are in a different league... they have a slowish product progression, clear marketing, are more expensive, use large chassis to provide space for all the needed options/cooling and also tend to have in country dealers.

Well said!

 

[JeremyFife]

How did you arrived at me picking on China?

The topic so happens to be about Chinese brands

Are you saying if the topic was say Korean brands then it would be OK? How about UK brands? American brands? Japanese brands? Are you saying, it's ok to talk about any other brands but Chinese brands? Or are you saying it's not OK to talk about any brands from anywhere?


You clearly didn't read the OP, go back and read it's I specifically mentioned Matrix Audio.

You know what ... I've read your OP properly now and I accept that I've jumped in a bit heavy
My use of the phrase "pick on" in particular was poorly chosen - I don't think you were picking on anyone. Sorry about that.

You have singled out China ... but you do explain why, and that's fair enough. I still don't get it as a reason for analysis ... but it's not my question, it's yours.
I hope you find an answer

Peace

 

[CleanSound]

You know what ... I've read your OP properly now and I accept that I've jumped in a bit heavy
My use of the phrase "pick on" in particular was poorly chosen - I don't think you were picking on anyone. Sorry about that.

You have singled out China ... but you do explain why, and that's fair enough. I still don't get it as a reason for analysis ... but it's not my question, it's yours.
I hope you find an answer

Peace

All good in the hood. The OP was long as heck anyway

 

[Digby]

You have singled out China ... but you do explain why, and that's fair enough. I still don't get it as a reason for analysis ... but it's not my question, it's yours.
I hope you find an answer

Singled out could sound a little accusatory too, perhaps 'focused on' China?

I suppose many Chinese brands (rather than OEM) are new to the market and causing a fair bit of disturbance, so it is a pertinent question, no?