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Advice please: Wall mounted setup for Home Gym/ Music Room £1000 budget

JakeK

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I'd love to get some good advice here as I've considered lots of options but I feel like I have more questions than answers at the moment. I have a concrete detached garage approx. 3mtrs x 5mtrs which I use as a workshop and home gym. I've been gradually soundproofing it and plasterboarding it to make it nicer to be in and so I can turn the music up in there without offending anyone. This is the next stage after it's all boarded and painted is the bit I'm most looking forward to, the sound system and it's a mostly blank canvas. I've built a pi based squeezebox as a wall mounted music player and other possible sources will be bluetooth from my phone or chromebook, a chromecast via a TV and possibly a keyboard/synthesiser. Everything needs to be wall mounted or possibly on a narrow shelf less than 300mm as floor space is precious in a small gym. The speakers will need to be high on the walls as most listening will be done standing up but sometimes sitting. Budget is loosely £1000. As I said I do have some ideas but I'm interested in suggestions.

There is also the question of placement. I can put the speakers on the longer wall or the shorter. I feel like they should be at least 2 mtrs apart. I did consider putting 4 corner speakers but that will probably not be best for stereo image. The listening position will be all around so the audio sweet spot doesn't want to be small. With wanting to mount these right on the wall it has occurred to me that conventional hifi speakers aren't the best solution and I should seek something unusual.

BTW You can read my room build thread over on AV Forums if interested: https://www.avforums.com/threads/soundproofed-garage-gym-music-room-workshop.2425368/

I previously posted this in the speakers forum but in hindsight that wasn't the right place.
 

Kuppenbender

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I have no idea what it sounds like, but if I had that kind of budget for what you want to use it for, I’d look at the the JBL - L75MS and put it on a shelf. Looks nice, probably sounds good enough.

If you’re really thinking of setting up a gym/listening room, then maybe a pair of wall-mountable Genelec 8010A’s and a budget subwoofer (SVS SB-1000pro). Unfortunately then you’d need some kind of a DAC with room/bass EQ (MiniDSP?) which will take you way over budget.

Uglier and cheaper would be a JBL package like this 308P-MKII-Studio-Monitors-with-310S-Subwoofer. The monitors measure well, not sure about the subwoofer. You’d still need a DAC with Bluetooth, maybe an RPi with CamillaDSP? Not sure if you could use that to integrate the sub.
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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I have no idea what it sounds like, but if I had that kind of budget for what you want to use it for, I’d look at the the JBL - L75MS and put it on a shelf. Looks nice, probably sounds good enough.
That looks interesting and I guess you would mount that in a corner but the major flaw I can imagine is you would not get a good stereo image from a one box solution like that.

If you’re really thinking of setting up a gym/listening room, then maybe a pair of wall-mountable Genelec 8010A’s and a budget subwoofer (SVS SB-1000pro). Unfortunately then you’d need some kind of a DAC with room/bass EQ (MiniDSP?) which will take you way over budget.

Uglier and cheaper would be a JBL package like this 308P-MKII-Studio-Monitors-with-310S-Subwoofer. The monitors measure well, not sure about the subwoofer. You’d still need a DAC with Bluetooth, maybe an RPi with CamillaDSP? Not sure if you could use that to integrate the sub.
Those genelecs and other small studio monitors are for nearfield use and I could be up to 4mtrs from them plus they're not made to be right on a wall so they won't sound their best in my gym. I also don't want a sub taking up floor space. I have been using a slightly faulty old Z-5500 5.1 set in there temporarily and the sub was in the way wherever I put it so that's in the shed waiting to be sold or thrown away. So if I'm using a sub it will be on wall and the only on-wall sub I found in budget doesn't have the sort of specs I would want.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

Not the first name that comes to audiophile's mind: SONOS.
A pair of Sonos 5. Problem solved.
Connect to anything that streams....Or not, if your music collection is on a Wi-Fi connected streamer.
Great Sound. Yes these sound very good

Great App.
Peace.
 

Tom C

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Hmmm….
My home gym is in the basement, which is only partially finished, so the space is actually similar in size to your setup. Which is to say, not overly large. I have a treadmill and a small refrigerator in that room, plus the HVAC is in the next room, so the noise floor can be high. With that in mind, I went with JBL Eon 610 and matching 618S subwoofer x 2. Looks like this:
1687193108043.png

The whole setup cost about US $2500. I paired it with a $100 DAC and can run it from phone, tablet or PC. What I found is that this is way overkill. While the system can overcome the noise floor and gloriously fill the room with sound so loud you literally cannot hear yourself talk, such is so much more than is necessary. And it does take up some floor space. Because the output is so impressively high, though, it is one of my most favorite systems I’ve ever had. But all the volume controls have to be turned way down, so they’re just above zero, plus digital attenuation at the player, or I’d be completely deaf in a few minutes of listening.
For your use case, I’d seriously consider either the JBL 308P or the JBL 705P. The 705 has built-in EQ, but for me, both of these choices are close enough to flat on axis, and well behaved off axis, to not need it. This is a better solution than trying to correct a flawed speaker with DSP, BTW. The main difference between those two is power level. There are additional important differences, but the additional differences are less likely to matter for what you’re doing with them. Both have sufficient bass output that you may be able to get away without a subwoofer. Nut that I am, I would always want to add a sub. But you’re more likely to be OK without it if the speaker has good bass, as these two have.
It sounds like you’re in Europe, maybe UK? If that is so, you may find a better price/performance with Neumann or Genelec. I don’t agree that compact Genelecs are not designed for wall mounting. If you go to their web site, you’ll see where for some models, they recommend just that, because it can reinforce the bass. One of the many great things about Genelec is that they provide so much useful information on their website for helping to choose a product, and helping to implement its use. Info that is easy to access and understand. The fabulous support provided by Genelec is a model that all manufacturers should aspire to.
One last word about pro products in general. They usually have very good options for mounting, and dedicated purpose built hardware is often available from the manufacturer or from a third party.
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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Hi

Not the first name that comes to audiophile's mind: SONOS.
A pair of Sonos 5. Problem solved.
Connect to anything that streams....Or not, if your music collection is on a Wi-Fi connected streamer.
Great Sound. Yes these sound very good

Great App.
Peace.
I had a quick look and the Sonos 5 only has one input which is 3.5mm (1/8"?) and no bluetooth so it's not for me.
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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For your use case, I’d seriously consider either the JBL 308P or the JBL 705P. The 705 has built-in EQ, but for me, both of these choices are close enough to flat on axis, and well behaved off axis, to not need it. This is a better solution than trying to correct a flawed speaker with DSP, BTW. The main difference between those two is power level. There are additional important differences, but the additional differences are less likely to matter for what you’re doing with them. Both have sufficient bass output that you may be able to get away without a subwoofer. Nut that I am, I would always want to add a sub. But you’re more likely to be OK without it if the speaker has good bass, as these two have.
It does seem like these could be a good option though reviews including ASR do mention some muddiness in the sound. I'm not sure what the best way to mount these on wall would be.

It sounds like you’re in Europe, maybe UK? If that is so, you may find a better price/performance with Neumann or Genelec. I don’t agree that compact Genelecs are not designed for wall mounting. If you go to their web site, you’ll see where for some models, they recommend just that, because it can reinforce the bass. One of the many great things about Genelec is that they provide so much useful information on their website for helping to choose a product, and helping to implement its use. Info that is easy to access and understand. The fabulous support provided by Genelec is a model that all manufacturers should aspire to.
One last word about pro products in general. They usually have very good options for mounting, and dedicated purpose built hardware is often available from the manufacturer or from a third party.
I spent some time reading the Genelec site and yes they do seem to suggest that just 5cm(2") from the wall is optimal so one of their own wall brackets should be ideal. Most speaker manufacturers recommend keeping the speakers away from the wall so that's different. They could be a good option along with a suitable DAC.

My issue with normal bookshelf speakers is that they don't sound great on a shelf. In the past had a pair up on a cupboard in a bedroom as that seemed the only space to put them and the sound wasn't that good. They definitely sounded better with more space around them.
 

Tom C

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The muddiness Amir refers to in his review is when turning the volume up towards the speakers limits. I don’t believe he was unhappy with the performance at lower volume levels.
Do you have a local dealer you can visit to listen to some different models before you buy?
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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This is from the other thread:
You may want to look at something like the Klipsch aw650 outdoor speaker or even better the Revel outdoor speaker which I believe measured well here on ASR.
I have given outdoor speakers some thought as they have good designed in mountings but many reviews don't rate the sound compared to an indoor hifi speaker or a monitor.
 

Berwhale

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My desktop setup might work well for you. iLoud MTMs + a Presonus Sub8. Have automatic DSP correction and are easy to mount - they have a standard 3/8" screw fitting in the base for a microphone stand (you could even mount them upside down from the ceiling).

The Sub8 sits in-line with the MTMs (i.e Source -> Sub8 -> MTMs) so it's easy to cross with the MTMs (which I also have high passed at 80hz).

Here's Amir's review of the MTMs: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...imedia-iloud-mtm-review-active-monitor.18347/

I find they go plenty loud when teamed with the sub.
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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My desktop setup might work well for you. iLoud MTMs + a Presonus Sub8. Have automatic DSP correction and are easy to mount - they have a standard 3/8" screw fitting in the base for a microphone stand (you could even mount them upside down from the ceiling).

The Sub8 sits in-line with the MTMs (i.e Source -> Sub8 -> MTMs) so it's easy to cross with the MTMs (which I also have high passed at 80hz).

Here's Amir's review of the MTMs: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...imedia-iloud-mtm-review-active-monitor.18347/

I find they go plenty loud when teamed with the sub.
While those might be a good choice for the desktop I don't think they would be good for my gym.
 

Tom C

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That would work. The Genelecs have actually have mounting holes in the cabinets and specific mounting brackets which I prefer the look of.
Without a doubt, Genelec is absolutely first rate. It doesn’t get any better.
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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After some more searching and reading around I read this thread on ASR: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...rs-on-wall-mounted-brackets-or-shelves.14889/

The Dali Rubicon LCR suggested there look interesting as they are built as on-wall speakers and use the wall for bass reinforcement.

A pair of those plus AMP and DAC will blow the budget though, even the Opticon LCR is too much. However the Oberon on-wall could be a good fit for my budget and space.
OBERON_ON-WALL_light_oak.png


I haven't heard much about on-wall speakers with decent bass performance before with the expectation being that on-walls are used with a sub. There aren't many reviews out there and I haven't found any on-wall measurements here on ASR. Has anyone here got experience will them?
 
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JakeK

JakeK

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Why would that be?
This is from Amir:
So if you expect to play it loud, these are not for you. And most definitely don't think of using them in far field listening.
Also, I don't want to have a sub on the floor any more and these look like they are built for desktop use and not wall mount.
 

Trouble Maker

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Maybe it's just my thriftiness but £1k seems like overkill for that use case.

I've got JBL305P in the garage and they are perfect. They are just for background while doing work in the garage, and they are perfect for that. It doesn't get super loud, but our garage is 2x your space and you can always step up to the 308P to get louder.

The current garage is 33 sqm. We are planning to build a bigger garage, around 67 sqm. I'm curious to see how they do, but if I had to guess they might not be loud enough.

I don't see how you could go wrong with the 30xP, I imagine 308P should be plenty loud in your size space for working out unless you are trying to damage your hearing.

I've been thinking about 2 of these for the dining/kitchen area. These seem like they would be perfect for that use case too, other than maybe not loud enough for what you want. Does IKEA sell these where you are?

Regardless of price I get the feeling reading through your comments you might have a hard time finding the right package of both loud and small/on wall, you can't beat physics. You definitely won't get low and loud, unless and maybe regardless of spending your way around the situation.
 

Zapper

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I would start with a WiiM Pro to cover Wifi, Bluetooth and Chromecast streaming and the ability to switch line in & optical inputs, and add a pair of self powered speakers, or a set of passive bookshelf speakers and the tiny Aiyima A07 amplifier. The WiiM Pro can act as a mini receiver.

My bookshelf speakers with rear ports have boomy bass when positioned close to the wall. Also you can't put speakers with rear ports right up to the wall unless you plug the ports. A monitor speaker like the Kali Audio IN-8 V2 with front ports and equalizer switches to adjust bass response for wall proximity would be a better choice for wall mounting.

I don't know about price and availability where you live, but in the US, two Kali IN-8 V2 and a WiiM Pro costs $950.
 

Tom C

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Wall mount can cover a wide range of speakers and sizes. Some are large and high output. And there are folks with full-range floorstanders that go low with high output that still use multiple subs, and others with small desktop speakers that don’t use subs, so that decision all comes down to whether or not your speakers in your room put out enough bass for your taste (well, the wants and needs of family and neighbors may also factor in).
You won’t see many in-room measurements of speakers for reviews because they don’t mean much for anything except those exact speakers in that exact spot in that exact room. If you change rooms, speaker position, or change speakers, the results can be wildly different. It seems intuitive that if a speaker is intended by design to be mounted on a wall, the manufacturer would test the unit on the wall. I expect the better ones do this, but for the above reasons, it’s not what you typically see published. Anechoic measurements are what’s needed to judge the quality of a speaker, and to compare speakers one to another. In fact, you need a full set of measurements (Spinorama) in order to fully characterize a speakers performance. A full set of spins from the manufacturer is rare, and in most cases would not be trusted, since sometimes manufacturers have been known to outright lie in order to sell a product. Or present real data, but in a deceptive way, such as using smoothing to make the measurements graph look better than it otherwise would. That’s why this site and a few others like it are so very valuable. For the companies that provide solid data to the public, their measurements can be confirmed. The rest can be clarified or debunked.
Once you get the speakers you want mounted where you want them, that’s the time for a measurement. I’m not saying that you have to measure, just that that’s the only way to reliably know what your getting.
 
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