Advice needed on choice of Amplifier

[Deleted member 48726]

I dont know how room correction works or what it does, could you explain.

Id hope to be satisfied without a sub but its not out of the question. It was a plus for the WXA-50.
Real bummed that Amp wasnt powerful enough, it was pretty perfect for me otherwise and there was one for just 200€ used.

If you ever felt like a particular song has some excessive boominess in the bass that you know isn't in the song itself that's your room playing the bass and amplifying that area.
Room correction measures your room with a microphone and then dials down those bass areas to normal levels.

That's the very short version.

Some software work better than others. Hence my remark about Yamahas room correction software, which is called YPAO.

 

[ZolaIII]

Room correction work's with wired sounds it produces during the calibration with supplied microphone. It measure how they bounces back and how much it changes (a bit like sonars). Then it based upon it make a auto PEQ correction in order to minimise the difference (peeks and deeps in frequency range). Depending how good is implementation written and thought of better will correction be. There is no great implementation so far and even best ones as Dirac still need that you first do a bigger and more problematic one's by hand and then let it do the rest for best results.

 

[LeontTP]

If you ever felt like a particular song has some excessive boominess in the bass that you know isn't in the song itself that's your room playing the bass and amplifying that area.
Room correction measures your room with a microphone and then dials down those bass areas to normal levels.

That's the very short version.

Some software work better than others. Hence my remark about Yamahas room correction software, which is called YPAO.

Room correction work's with wired sounds it produces during the calibration with supplied microphone. It measure how they bounces back and how much it changes (a bit like sonars). Then it based upon it make a auto PEQ correction in order to minimise the difference (peeks and deeps in frequency range). Depending how good is implementation written and thought of better will correction be. There is no great implementation so far and even best ones as Dirac still need that you first do a bigger and more problematic one's by hand and then let it do the rest for best results.

I see. Not sure if Id want to get that into the weeds, at least until its a very reliable and common tech. But it couldnt hurt to have.

Is the Yamaha line the only one that seems to fit me then, or are there any other alternatives to look at?

 

[LeontTP]

I looked up my old Cyrus 2 specs and see it only has a 50W/CH output at 8 ohms as well. Still makes me wonder how much sound improvements I would really hear at 100W or more.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I looked up my old Cyrus 2 specs and see it only has a 50W/CH output at 8 ohms as well. Still makes me wonder how much sound improvements I would really hear at 100W or more.

Maybe some, probably not though. There is some possibility with certain amps and certain speakers that can result in audible differences but there is normally not.
But I bet that you will appreciate the loudness knob on the Yamaha. This changes the sound profile-->

 

[Zapper]

I looked up my old Cyrus 2 specs and see it only has a 50W/CH output at 8 ohms as well. Still makes me wonder how much sound improvements I would really hear at 100W or more.

I'm not sure what you are looking to improve. I just looked up the Cyrus 2 and it seems to have everything on the list in your original post except remote control. Is remote control the major improvement you want?

Your Cyrus 2 claims to have a particularly high quality phono preamp and a high current amplifier output. I don't know anything about that amp - maybe that's marketing voodoo - but if it's true then you could do worse in an "upgrade". Particularly since you listen to records a lot. Phono preamps are at best an afterthought, a checkmark on the feature list, for most amps.

100W vs 50W is a 3dB difference, which is considered a readily detectable but minor difference in perceived loudness. It's probably not worth upgrading for that alone.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I'm not sure what you are looking to improve. I just looked up the Cyrus 2 and it seems to have everything on the list in your original post except remote control. Is remote control the major improvement you want?

Your Cyrus 2 claims to have a particularly high quality phono preamp and a high current amplifier output. I don't know anything about that amp - maybe that's marketing voodoo - but if it's true then you could do worse in an "upgrade". Particularly since you listen to records a lot. Phono preamps are at best an afterthought, a checkmark on the feature list, for most amps.

100W vs 50W is a 3dB difference, which is considered a readily detectable but minor difference in perceived loudness. It's probably not worth upgrading for that alone.

Good point. But it seems like there were some "challenges" with the Cyrus 2 and I also think it seems a bit underwhelming from the power supply side of things. But it depends what it's supposed or expected to do.

Review and Measurements of vintage Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier

50 Hz indicates either ground loop action or capacitive coupling, both of which are topological (potentially including the measurement setup) and as such should be unaffected by filter capacitance. That said, since the AX-396 shares a PCB with the -496 which comes with 10000µ/63V caps, it would...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Zapper]

Good point. But it seems like there were some "challenges" with the Cyrus 2 and I also think it seems a bit underwhelming from the power supply side of things. But it depends what it's supposed or expected to do.

Review and Measurements of vintage Yamaha AX-396 integrated amplifier

50 Hz indicates either ground loop action or capacitive coupling, both of which are topological (potentially including the measurement setup) and as such should be unaffected by filter capacitance. That said, since the AX-396 shares a PCB with the -496 which comes with 10000µ/63V caps, it would...

audiosciencereview.com

Interesting. I see that the Cyrus 2 power increases from 50/80W (8/4 ohms) to 70/125W (8/4 ohms) with the PSX added.

 

[LeontTP]

Maybe some, probably not though. There is some possibility with certain amps and certain speakers that can result in audible differences but there is normally not.
But I bet that you will appreciate the loudness knob on the Yamaha. This changes the sound profile-->
View attachment 277918

Not even in dynamic crescendos or transients? I havnt really heard issues like clipping with my current setup but then again Vinyl isnt the most statistically impressive format.

It would be fun to play with, same with tone controls. I generally seek a neutral signal, Im audiophile in that sense I guess and for comparing and reviewing different masterings I do need consistency. But as long as you can bypass it there should be no harm.

 

[Steven Holt]

Here's one more vote for the Yamaha AS701, I honestly don't see how you can go wrong with it.

 

[LeontTP]

I'm not sure what you are looking to improve. I just looked up the Cyrus 2 and it seems to have everything on the list in your original post except remote control. Is remote control the major improvement you want?

Your Cyrus 2 claims to have a particularly high quality phono preamp and a high current amplifier output. I don't know anything about that amp - maybe that's marketing voodoo - but if it's true then you could do worse in an "upgrade". Particularly since you listen to records a lot. Phono preamps are at best an afterthought, a checkmark on the feature list, for most amps.

100W vs 50W is a 3dB difference, which is considered a readily detectable but minor difference in perceived loudness. It's probably not worth upgrading for that alone.

Id love to improve any bit I can but I understand that my budget and certain requirements limit things. My Cyrus 2 is also starting to have issues which is largely what prompted me to start this thread.

Furthermore I had doubts about my old Amp being able to drive more expensive tower speakers but that was just an assumption on my part.

Also in regards to improvement, I suppose the most meaningful improvements are the ones we actually hear. In that sense Amps as I understand it dont really change too much unless there is some issue along the chain. So Improving "meaningfully" (audibly) might not be in the cards even if I had 5000$ to spend. Im just looking to buy something that will keep me set and happy for as long as possible by covering all the requirements I expect to matter to me.
A remote, while a small thing, really is a deal breaker for me as all the extra steps involved with vinyl like flipping sides is enough inconvenience as is.

 

[LeontTP]

Here's one more vote for the Yamaha AS701, I honestly don't see how you can go wrong with it.

In regards to this, does anyone know if the Yamaha AS701 MK 1 and 2 differ in any meaningful way? Google just seams to reveal others equally confused with no apparent differences.

I found one retailer stating MK2 has "better components" with no specifics.

 

[Steven Holt]

Yamaha AS701 MK 1 and 2 differ in any meaningful way?

I honestly suspect that there is no meaningful, sonic difference. Go with the least expensive one.

 

[Zapper]

Id love to improve any bit I can but I understand that my budget and certain requirements limit things. My Cyrus 2 is also starting to have issues which is largely what prompted me to start this thread.

Furthermore I had doubts about my old Amp being able to drive more expensive tower speakers but that was just an assumption on my part.

Also in regards to improvement, I suppose the most meaningful improvements are the ones we actually hear. In that sense Amps as I understand it dont really change too much unless there is some issue along the chain. So Improving "meaningfully" (audibly) might not be in the cards even if I had 5000$ to spend. Im just looking to buy something that will keep me set and happy for as long as possible by covering all the requirements I expect to matter to me.
A remote, while a small thing, really is a deal breaker for me as all the extra steps involved with vinyl like flipping sides is enough inconvenience as is.

Amplifiers don't have much of a sonic signature unless they are clipping or struggling with a difficult load impedance. Speakers have a lot of sonic signature and have many imperfections. Buy what you need in an amplifier and spend your money on better speakers - that's where the big audible improvements lay.

"Future proofing" doesn't work because we can't predict the future. What if you buy an expensive amp then decide you want powered speakers?

Look at the used market. You read all the guys here who are always buying expensive new equipment, just because they can? Buy their old stuff and save a lot.

 

[LeontTP]

I honestly suspect that there is no meaningful, sonic difference. Go with the least expensive one.

Indeed, if I see either for real cheap I wont care which MK it is.

 

[LeontTP]

Amplifiers don't have much of a sonic signature unless they are clipping or struggling with a difficult load impedance. Speakers have a lot of sonic signature and have many imperfections. Buy what you need in an amplifier and spend your money on better speakers - that's where the big audible improvements lay.

"Future proofing" doesn't work because we can't predict the future. What if you buy an expensive amp then decide you want powered speakers?

Look at the used market. You read all the guys here who are always buying expensive new equipment, just because they can? Buy their old stuff and save a lot.

Thats the plan at least, 500€ on the Amp and 2000€ or so on Speakers. Im just too inexperienced with Amps to know what to look for, I can find options that tick the boxes and look the part but Im clueless about what specs are good or even matter for a future speaker purchase. I feel a bit better about it now though ;^)

We may not know the future, but I know generally what I want. Powered speaker for example are not gonna happen.

Will do, Ive found an AS 701 for about 400$ for example or the previously considered WXA-50 for 200$, what a steal! Shame its not more powerful than my Cyrus 2 but then again maybe I wont need that. Ill keep looking anyway but feel free to let me know if you think of any other brand or unit that could tick my boxes.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Thats the plan at least, 500€ on the Amp and 2000€ or so on Speakers. Im just too inexperienced with Amps to know what to look for, I can find options that tick the boxes and look the part but Im clueless about what specs are good or even matter for a future speaker purchase. I feel a bit better about it now though ;^)

We may not know the future, but I know generally what I want. Powered speaker for example are not gonna happen.

Will do, Ive found an AS 701 for about 400$ for example or the previously considered WXA-50 for 200$, what a steal! Shame its not more powerful than my Cyrus 2 but then again maybe I wont need that. Ill keep looking anyway but feel free to let me know if you think of any other brand or unit that could tick my boxes.

I'd argue you get more than twice amps worth in the 701 compared to the wxa, but I'm a bit old school anyway.

Denon has a well built stereo lineup in their PMA models if you want to compare.

Also NAD has many stereo models. But it's my perception that they can have different kind of problems.
C316BEE, C375. They can often be had pretty cheap on the market.

 

[LeontTP]

I'd argue you get more than twice amps worth in the 701 compared to the wxa, but I'm a bit old school anyway.

Denon has a well built stereo lineup in their PMA models if you want to compare.

Thanks! I did take a look from an earlier recommendation, the Denon PMAs seem to have ever weaker output than my Cyrus 2 however, not sure if I dare go down in output given the recommendations so far.

A used Yamaha AS701 or at least a 501 is looking like the best options so far anyway.

 

[ppataki]

First time poster here, appreciate all the informative threads and posts Ive read before!

Now Ive had my eye on the perfect Amp for me but could use some guidance. Im looking for an integrated Amp with a few requirements such as:

• In my budget of around 500€
• Remote controllable in different ways
• Analog Ins
• Black minimalist finish with little to no light indicators
• Not too large of a footprint ( 30x30x10cm or so)
• Flat as can be frequency response from 20 - 20KHz
• Something that can handle tower speakers in a medium sized room or more in case of future speaker purchases

Sorry if Im not technical enough, Im not so into that side of things and am just looking to run my 2 channel Stereo with as high quality as I can within these bounds. Other features like bluetooth functionality could be a bonus.
So far Ive found some attractive looking options in the Rega IO and Argon SA1 but given their not so stellar measurements in Amirs reviews Ive been discouraged.
The best option Ive seen so far is the Yamaha WXA-50 as it seems to tick most boxes and measure decently and am currently looking at a used one for 200€. My only worry is if its not powerful enough, Class D amps always look so unimpressive but from what I understand they can output a lot.

What would you guys say, are there better options for me?

Thanks!

Sabaj A30A - I have replaced my Topping DM7 + NC250MP combo with these....extremely detailed and precise sound, cannot recommend them enough
No need for a DAC since they are Full Digital Amps

 

[LeontTP]

Sabaj A30A - I have replaced my Topping DM7 + NC250MP combo with these....extremely detailed and precise sound, cannot recommend them enough
No need for a DAC since they are Full Digital Amps

If its fully digital its not for me though.