A Beginner who need advice for DAC and AMP

[Toshinden]

Hello,
I recently discovered the 'audiophile' universe
Having bought a Sennheiser HD 600 headphones thanks to the tips found on the net because I wanted one for the quality of voice and sound fidelity from my audio files.
I discovered that the sound was very weak due to its impedance of 300 ohm.

After several research, I have to buy a DAC and a separate AMP (not in combo) for my office installation.
In my mind I thought separate DAC and AMP its better because each device is "more specialized" so i will encounter less issue/problems and have better quality/price/values?!

I have a budget of 600 €


(My comments will obviously be from an amateur point of view, so please be tolerant.)

I continued my research and 'apparently' the DAC and AMP can alter the origin of my audio files and their data another sound / another 'color' / a clean signature with respect to different brands.
I have also seen that it is better to have an AMP with an XLR input which cancels 'interference / defaults' that would have those with jack inputs.

In reference to some tests and the SINAD graph of @amirm

At the moment I see that the THY massdrop AMPs AAA and Jds Atom are very recommended but the atom jds has no input XLR ...
In addition the Massdrop has some additional options such as THX and DIRAC.
Do these technologies greatly increase the listening experience?

I know Massdrop AMP is out of stock but i can wait,i dont know if the Monolith THX AAA has the exact same specifications?!

Regarding the DAC, there is the SMSL SU-8, Topping D70, Allo Katana, Khadas etc ...

I would need your expert business advice to help me to purchase a DAC and AMP with the best ratio / quality / price according to my 600 € budget that does not alter the originality of my sound files for my headphones Sennheiser HD 600.
I dont mind to put extra money if i can get better ratio / quality / price.


PS: English is not my mother tongue, I apologize in advance for my grammar.

 

[maxxevv]

There is a very similar question posted here:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...eeking-dac-amp-combo-suggestions-please.8003/

I have previously replied in another thread:

If you need portability, the Topping NX4 DSD.

If you don't need portability, the Khadas Tone Board (separate case) + JDS Atom.

If you value a finished product and can spend maybe just a little bit more, the Topping D50 / SMSL SU-8 + JDS Atom.

If you want convenience of a single box and don't need portability, the Topping DX3 Pro.

All have been measured here on ASR, you just need to do a search to see what suits your needs better.

 

[Toshinden]

i have seen most of ESS sabre chip has "hump" in IMD distortion test and the SMSL SU-8 have it.I dont know if it is a big issue.
I did check the Schiit modi 3 and it didnt suffer this "hump"distorsion.
About sound quality and build ,i dont know if i pick the Topping D70 will be worth or not.
About portability ,i see there is the monolith THX AAA dac/amp which has better "SINAD" test than Topping NX4DSD but cost around 100 dollars more because its an amp/dac combo and the Topping is a Dac only.

I wish someone could answers my others questions too.

 

[maxxevv]

i have seen most of ESS sabre chip has "hump" in IMD distortion test and the SMSL SU-8 have it.I dont know if it is a big issue.
I did check the Schiit modi 3 and it didnt suffer this "hump"distorsion.
About sound quality and build ,i dont know if i pick the Topping D70 will be worth or not.

The latest results on the D50S (not the original D50) show that they have resolved that. The D70 using the AK4497 does not exhibit that though its about US$450/-.

 

[Toshinden]

So you mean there is no improvement compare to the SU-8 which justify the double price right?
About portability ,do you still suggest more the Topping nx4 over Monolith THX AAA?

 

[Veri]

About portability ,do you still suggest more the Topping nx4 over Monolith THX AAA?

Of course. Compact, get NX4. Otherwise the Monolith is good, the DX3 is obviously good too and cheaper (but no balanced).

 

[maxxevv]

So you mean there is no improvement compare to the SU-8 which justify the double price right?
About portability ,do you still suggest more the Topping nx4 over Monolith THX AAA?

The D50 / D50S are very comparable in price with the SU-8. Its the D70 that's double their price.

With a clean measuring amp such as the Atom / THX 789, you shouldn't hear significant differences if they are level matched at their outputs for the 3 listed here. If any, it should be very minimal at best and most likely due to how their output stages interact with the output amps power circuits.

 

[Bob-23]

I saw, there's a double post of yours, so I repeat my answer here again:

I prefer a modular system, too. I combine the HD 600 with an (selfmade) Objective 2, among others - it's true, the Atom measures a bit better, but I guess, the difference between the two of them is beyond audibility for most of us. The O2 has a metal case, instead of the plastic case of the Atom; apart from the looks and the feels, the metal case might have a better shielding, but as I understand Amir's measurements, he did not notice any negative effect of the non-shielding, so that may be no problem...

The Atom has two muting relays, muting the switch-on transients, which is a good idea - if the relays are of a good quality, and provide a long life expectancy, if not: cheap relays will be probably the first parts in the amp that fail. The O2 has a certain turn-on muting, too, done with capacitors (only) instead of relays (plus capacitors), it's probably not as effective as the one in the Atom, but it may be sufficient. With regard to the O2: If you don't switch AC (i.e. don't switch the power supply itself, but use for switching only the switch on the case), then I'd say, you won't have problems with the turn-on transients.

Instead, or better, additional to the muting of the switch-on transients, I'd like to see in both the Atom and the O2, a DC-protection circuit with relays, in case an op-amp fails and floods your headphones with potentially high levels of DC (12V-15V, e.g.) which they most probably woudn't survive. I built in my O2 the "epsilon12 DC muting/protect circuit" of AMB, which not only mutes the headphones when switching on but also instantaneously mutes when there is DC at the output, surmounting a certain minimal 'allowed' level (I modified the circuit slightly). This is a simple but very effective muting circuit... can highly recommend that intelligent circuit. But you have to know how to use a soldering iron, if you don't, there my be any friend of yours who can do it for you, the circuit is not that compex... But, of course, the implementation of the circuit in an amp is also not that easy, provided there's enough space in the case... If you build an amp from scratch the implementation is easy. Efficient DC-Protection should be standard in a modern headphone amp.

BTW, Solderdude once developed a particular amp for the HD 600, lifting the bass a bit, and lowering the highs a bit (the headphones, which are otherwise great, lack a bit of subbass, and Coltrane's or Garbarek's sopran sax may sometimes be a bit aching, at least for me it is...) Look on Solderdude's website DIY Audio Heaven, where you'd also find detailed reviews and measurings of headphones, he measured the HD 600, too.

As a DAC you may use the Topping D30, I use the Behringer UMC204HD, as a DAC only, it's a sturdy, solid build, fully metal, with soft going potentiometers, "a unit (which) does everything but wash dishes" as Amir put it in his review. I don't use the headphone-out for hifi-listening. The UMC204HD is first of all an audio interface, and, I guess, the headphone-out is made primarily for monitoring while recording, rather than for critical hifi listening. But as a DAC, it's good, Today I'd probably go for the D30, but, then again, I strongly doubt I would hear any difference between the two of them, but maybe there is people (younger than me and/or 'golden eared') who do.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

Of course. Compact, get NX4. Otherwise the Monolith is good, the DX3 is obviously good too and cheaper (but no balanced).

I can vouch for the DX3 Pro; excellent sound quality, more than adequate power output, and very versatile in terms of inputs, pre-amp mode, screen, remote etc.

The XLR / Balanced interconnects are a hobbyist hoax perpetuated on Drop to push sales of the 789 and justify the price tag. Balanced output to the headphones I think is good, but I don't think its worth paying $300 more for a 789 compared to an Atom ($400 vs $100). However, if you just want a headphone setup (as you mentioned office setup) I'd say the Topping D50s to 789 is the best combination for the money. I don't like the Khadas because I think its too bare bones of a device; inevitably you'll want to have some versatility in terms of inputs and functionality in the future (e.g. I started using my DX3 Pro as a preamp when I bought my integrated stereo amplifier).

 

[Julf]

The XLR / Balanced interconnects are a hobbyist hoax perpetuated on Drop to push sales of the 789 and justify the price tag. Balanced output to the headphones I think is good, but I don't think its worth paying $300 more for a 789 compared to an Atom ($400 vs $100).

Balanced/differential interconnects actually offer common mode noise rejection and avoidance of ground loops. For headphones all they offer is a slight increase in output level (that could be easily be done unbalanced too).

 

[LuckyLuke575]

Balanced/differential interconnects actually offer common mode noise rejection and avoidance of ground loops. For headphones all they offer is a slight increase in output level (that could be easily be done unbalanced too).

Yeah, this is the common online mantra, but in a home audio setup on cable runs with 3 meters or less (or 25 cm in the case of a XLR bridge here) there's no practical benefit. The technical principle that I do like is having separate grounding wires, so cross-talk between the channels is eliminated.

If I have the choice of a balanced output, I'd always use it, but in this case, one needs to decide if having balanced inputs and outputs is worth hundreds of dollars more (for both amp and DAC), so for e.g. Atom + D50s (~EUR 400) or 789 + D70 (~ EUR 900). In any case @Toshinden indicate that his budget is EUR 600, so that would probably settle the choice.

Agree with output level. I run my office headphones via balanced output, and it sounds better to me (don't know if its the higher power output, cable quality / silver plating / braided design, balanced connection, or my mind playing tricks, but I enjoy the clear beautiful sound thoroughly).

 

[Julf]

Yeah, this is the common online mantra, but in a home audio setup on cable runs with 3 meters or less (or 25 cm in the case of a XLR bridge here) there's no practical benefit.

The practical benefit is avoiding ground loops. By the way, just because something is repeated online doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

The practical benefit is avoiding ground loops. By the way, just because something is repeated online doesn't mean it isn't true.

Have you heard any 'ground loops'? I'm using RCA connects and I'm still to hear any. I'm also waiting for the gnomes to come out from behind my audio shelf, but I never stay up late enough to see them lol

 

[Julf]

Have you heard any 'ground loops'? I'm using RCA connects and I'm still to hear any. I'm also waiting for the gnomes to come out from behind my audio shelf, but I never stay up late enough to see them lol

Lucky you if you never experienced them. They really aren't a real issue with competently designed gear and cables of reasonable length in a domestic setting, but try running hundreds of yards of mic cables with gear that gets fed from several different mains sources...

 

[Veri]

For headphones all they offer is a slight increase in output level (that could be easily be done unbalanced too).

Seems more like a slight increase

 

[Julf]

Seems more like a slight increase

6 dB.

 

[LTig]

The practical benefit is avoiding ground loops. By the way, just because something is repeated online doesn't mean it isn't true.

I'd like to disagree. You cannot avoid ground loops, but using proper balanced interconnections with proper balanced IOs avoids the negative influence (hum, buzz) of ground loops. Best described in The G Word, or How to Get Your Audio off the Ground.

 

[LTig]

Have you heard any 'ground loops'? I'm using RCA connects and I'm still to hear any.

I did, in my fairly complex main system with lots of different units (both semipro and consumer, and including a SAT TV receiver) and a mix of RCA and XLR connections. One semipro unit[1] had to be put on isolating feet to break a contact of its metal housing to the housing of the semipro CD recorder, otherwise there was a 50 Hz hum which was annoying while listening to classical music.

[1] The housing of this unit had contact both to pin 1 of the XLR connectors and to the safety ground of the mains cable. The ground loop was created by the RF cable connection between SAT TV receiver and the common SAT dish installation. Removing this cable also killed the hum but that was no option.

 

[LTig]

6 dB.

That's right. But even without a balanced output (no 6 dB increase) many HP amps deliver more output power than is healthy for longer listening. I always fear for @amirm's ears when he tests HP amps ...

 

[Julf]

I'd like to disagree. You cannot avoid ground loops, but using proper balanced interconnections with proper balanced IOs avoids the negative influence (hum, buzz) of ground loops. Best described in The G Word, or How to Get Your Audio off the Ground.

Great paper, and one of my go-to references. Yes, you are right. I shouldn't have written "avoid ground loops" but "avoid the harmful effects of ground loops".