$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[goskers]

Interesting...if he has any of the others going spare, I know someone that will take good care of them

All others are gone now. Only considerations for me now is system expansion path within the Genelec family.

 

[Digby]

All others are gone now. Only considerations for me now is system expansion path within the Genelec family.

What were your feelings about the others, if you remember. It is quite a broad range of 'top end' speakers of differing design and size, most don't have this breadth of experience, so it'd be interesting to know your thoughts.

 

[steve59]

I don't remember if I listed the 3 sets of components I listened to the salon 2's with Mark Levinson 536, Hegel H360 and Krell 575xd. It was the ML kit in a well treated room that convinced me to take the pair home. It was after listening to the Salon2's, speakers that got more praise than any other speaker I know of that I decided store demo's were meaningless and I would never pay more for a pair of speakers than I can resell them for, that said the higher I go up in price the longer they take to resell. I live in the Chicago suburbs and will drive 3-400 miles each way for what I consider a deal and I have enjoyed the process of 1 by 1 eliminating speakers from my list, how surprisingly when I'm done with a pair the next one will show up on agon or usam.

After owning the revel f52, salon and then salon 2 I asked the experts on this forum what measurement defined soundstage the answer was ??? there isn't one. I asked because the f52 was the first Revel I owned and had a very deep and narrow waveguide that produced the most amazing sense of depth and precision that i'd ever experienced it made me a believer, still I thought tone could be improved so I moved up the chain, unfortunately the salon and salon 2 that replaced the f52 had different qualities and the magnificent soundstage precision was gone. Today When asked I say revel speakers are a safe buy for HT, but for 2 channel there's better, but I say that about everything

 

[Absolute]

After owning the revel f52, salon and then salon 2 I asked the experts on this forum what measurement defined soundstage the answer was ??? there isn't one. I asked because the f52 was the first Revel I owned and had a very deep and narrow waveguide that produced the most amazing sense of depth and precision that i'd ever experienced it made me a believer, still I thought tone could be improved so I moved up the chain, unfortunately the salon and salon 2 that replaced the f52 had different qualities and the magnificent soundstage precision was gone. Today When asked I say revel speakers are a safe buy for HT, but for 2 channel there's better, but I say that about everything

Soundstage is always tricky because it's both frequency response and acoustically related. How the speaker distributes the sound and how the room reflects it will drastically change our perception of soundstage. And that's before we touch on the sensitive topic of preferences.

The frequency response, strength and time-arrival of reflections will greatly affect the soundstage even with the same speakers, so I rarely comment on this aspect when I discuss speakers I've experienced. The best experiment I did in this hobby was to take Kii Three with me to several different rooms of vastly different sizes and acoustics. Holy moly is the room important, in some cases it didn't sound like the same speakers going from room to room.
And still here we are, debating Sinad numbers and decimal differences between speakers.

 

[MKR]

... revel speakers are a safe buy for HT, but for 2 channel there's better ...

Can you quantify that statement? Why is Revel not so good for 2ch? Too big of a soundstage and lack of focus/image? I think it is not a black and white "better vs worse", but once again we are back to personal preference.

Genuine questions, not being snarky (I feel like I always need to add this qualifier so folks don't get butt hurt, too easy to misunderstand intent via text ).

Thanks!

 

[steve59]

Difficult to explain. The f52 is a very intimate experience with so much depth to the presentation it gives images even more detail and realism. The ultima's were a disappointment for me because the soundstage disappeared and while the salon2 does a spectacular job at image placement and exceptional detail the stage adding depth to all these images isn't there. I've read deep bass is responsible for a good soundstage and i've confessed my hegel h360 didn't really pull any bass out of the salon2's making me resell them. The f52 has a deep narrow waveguide while the salon2 has a shallow wide waveguide, whichever was the reason idk, The Salon 2 is better than the f52 in every other regard.

 

[MKR]

Difficult to explain. The f52 is a very intimate experience with so much depth to the presentation it gives images even more detail and realism. The ultima's were a disappointment for me because the soundstage disappeared and while the salon2 does a spectacular job at image placement and exceptional detail the stage adding depth to all these images isn't there. I've read deep bass is responsible for a good soundstage and i've confessed my hegel h360 didn't really pull any bass out of the salon2's making me resell them. The f52 has a deep narrow waveguide while the salon2 has a shallow wide waveguide, whichever was the reason idk, The Salon 2 is better than the f52 in every other regard.

Thank you sir. This actually makes sense and I suspect you are correct (different wave guides f52 vs Salon 2). I believe this is likely the reason the 328Be in fact measures better (HF FR) than the Salon 2, as 328 has next-gen/optimized wave guide (and there is certainly a contingent of folks that prefer the 328 to the Salon 2)

I will find out for certain with my own ears in January as I will be auditioning the Salon 2 and 328Be in same room

 

[dshreter]

Soundstage is always tricky because it's both frequency response and acoustically related. How the speaker distributes the sound and how the room reflects it will drastically change our perception of soundstage. And that's before we touch on the sensitive topic of preferences.

The frequency response, strength and time-arrival of reflections will greatly affect the soundstage even with the same speakers, so I rarely comment on this aspect when I discuss speakers I've experienced. The best experiment I did in this hobby was to take Kii Three with me to several different rooms of vastly different sizes and acoustics. Holy moly is the room important, in some cases it didn't sound like the same speakers going from room to room.
And still here we are, debating Sinad numbers and decimal differences between speakers. If I were an acoustician I would probably go on a killing spree on audiophiles for being a crime against humanity.




Don't worry, I won't become an acoustician.

This is so right, sound stage is difficult to describe via measurements and so highly dependent on the room and geometry.

Room design and how it relates to the perceived experience deserves a lot more attention. Seeing arguments about whether Neumann or Genelec sounds better is of comically low importance in comparison to the room.

 

[MKR]

Anyone have any experience with these? ... https://www.arionaudio.com/

Looks to be a proper implementation of dipole line arrays

 

[goskers]

What were your feelings about the others, if you remember. It is quite a broad range of 'top end' speakers of differing design and size, most don't have this breadth of experience, so it'd be interesting to know your thoughts.

Sorry but I’m not going through a whole story as it is way too long.

Loudspeakers are all a set of compromises. I think I learned some from most every speaker and experiment. I have also thought that each purchase was my last.

The design choices of the 8361, which make them special, is that the use a concentric driver coupled to a large waveguide with a cabinet using large radius edges to reduce diffraction. Active and powered with brilliant woofer integration and the GLM software suite gives me a full service, comprehensive system that is plug and play.

 

[Digby]

Sorry but I’m not going through a whole story as it is way too long.

Whaaa, spoilsport! Well, did you have an opportunity to compare them side by side or was a new set purchased once the old set was gone, maybe that is a shorter story?

 

[VoodooDetective]

Any news on auditions?

 

[MKR]

Any news on auditions?

Not yet, in the process now of getting everything lined up for a mid to late January audition road trip. Will keep everyone posted, promise!

 

[Doodski]

Not yet, in the process now of getting everything lined up for a mid to late January audition road trip. Will keep everyone posted, promise!

That's just awesome! We have peeps here regularily looking for this and that but never do they create a itinerary for test auditioning speakers across the country. You are the exception to the rule and I bet there is a ton of peeps here wanting to see what your final speaker decision is. I know I am more than interested.

 

[MKR]

That's just awesome! We have peeps here regularily looking for this and that but never do they create a itinerary for test auditioning speakers across the country. You are the exception to the rule and I bet there is a ton of peeps here wanting to see what your final speaker decision is. I know I am more than interested.

No pressure! … Will do my best to avoid being the typical pontificating hi-if reviewer … actually, I am about as far from that as you can get. I can‘t even read the reviews from most of the online audio rags any longer without vomiting in my mouth a bit these days. ASR has been so refreshing, wish I would have found it long ago. Better late than never.

Stay tuned!

 

[MKR]

New one added to short list …

alumine three — Stenheim

www.stenheim.com

Anyone have any measurements for these?

 

[goskers]

Whaaa, spoilsport! Well, did you have an opportunity to compare them side by side or was a new set purchased once the old set was gone, maybe that is a shorter story?

Yes and no. I took part in the M2/Salon2 shootout. Spent a day at Harman auditioning all of the JBL line. Spent a day at the Genelec Experience Center outside of Boston. Was able to listen to most side by side in my room which was purpose built at the time.
As I have mentioned before, anyone looking to spend some serious money should audition for themselves. I absolutely love this site as I didn’t even know about Genelec as a brand prior to seeing the measurements here.
I just don’t care to write on audio any longer as this seems to be what certain people want to read versus that of a better understanding of the science and measurements which might be able to point you in a solid direction.

 

[Doodski]

I can‘t even read the reviews from most of the online audio rags any longer without vomiting in my mouth a bit these days.

I thank Miss Clover from the advanced speed reading class for teaching me to high speed skim and scan. That's how I manage the flowery articles.

 

[MKR]

I thank Miss Clover from the advanced speed reading class for teaching me to high speed skim and scan. That's how I manage the flowery articles.

”Flowery” is being kind … you are a gentleman, I would choose different words to describe the nonsense

 

[GIEGAR]

New one added to short list …

alumine three — Stenheim

www.stenheim.com

Anyone have any measurements for these?

Stenheim Alumine Three loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com