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$2500 for System for Office with Standing Desk

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ClearHearing

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IMO, active speakers are not a slam dunk. There are lots of good passive speakers available and electronics to drive them have gotten very cheap. In particular, actives are prone to audible hiss when used near field.

There are some speakers on this list:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-recommendations-for-usa-by-sweetchaos.28296/

Thanks for that helpful link. That Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX is in my price range and getting great scores, a tiny bit better than the Neumann KH 120 II.

I wish someone had a simple preference score for subwoofers.
 
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ClearHearing

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Personally, I'd go active.

Without DSP:
1. Genelec 8040

With DSP:
2. Genelec 8330
3. Neumann KH120 II

Any balanced DAC. PEQ provided by SoundSource (MacOS app) (or similar).

But if you're keen on the passive route...

KEF R3 Meta for US$2200/pair. (note that R3 non-meta are US$1400/pair right now, but will clear out eventually)
Topping PA5 II for US$250.
Plus any balanced DAC. PEQ provided by SoundSource (MacOS app) (or similar).
SweetChaos, you are the creator of the recommended list that has the Sierra LX ranked above the KEF R3 Meta. Is there a reason you recommended the KEF R3 Meta to me?
 

waynel

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The ascend sierra has not been independently measured so I would take it with a grain of salt. And btw sweetchaos recommended you go active as do I .
 

waynel

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Thanks for that helpful link. That Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX is in my price range and getting great scores, a tiny bit better than the Neumann KH 120 II.

I wish someone had a simple preference score for subwoofers.
What’s the largest size in cubic feet and highest price that you would consider for a sub?
 

sweetchaos

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SweetChaos, you are the creator of the recommended list that has the Sierra LX ranked above the KEF R3 Meta. Is there a reason you recommended the KEF R3 Meta to me?
Kef R3 and R3 Meta was measured by Erin and Amir, so that's an easy recommendation.

Sierra LX's spinorama was provided by the Ascend Acoustics. But I'd like to see a review by either Amir or Erin, just to verify it's accuracy. Trust, but verify, is my motto.
Note that Erin has a Ascend Acoustics speaker upcoming for a review, and we'll see soon enough if it's Sierra LX.
 

waynel

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I have no idea as I have never owned one. It shouldn't be crazy dominating the room. But I don't think it would.

A response at the top of the thread mentions this Kali woofer. Any thoughts?


Sweetchaos also compiled a subwoofer comparison table.

I took the table and filtered by subs that were under 1.6 cubic feet, under $1000 and had a reliable source of measurements. Then I sorted by 20Hz performance. By this sort the SVS SB1000 pro comes out on top. You can sort for your specific criteria.

1698285634157.png




Comparing just the SVS SB1000 pro and the Kali WS-6.2 below, the SVS is able to reach 20Hz , and has higher output at all frequencies. On the otherhand the Kali is $100 cheaper, smaller, and does have XLR inputs which are advantages




1698285983350.png
 
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ClearHearing

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Sweetchaos also compiled a subwoofer comparison table.

I took the table and filtered by subs that were under 1.6 cubic feet, under $1000 and had a reliable source of measurements. Then I sorted by 20Hz performance. By this sort the SVS SB1000 pro comes out on top. You can sort for your specific criteria.

View attachment 321230



Comparing just the SVS SB1000 pro and the Kali WS-6.2 below, the SVS is able to reach 20Hz , and has higher output at all frequencies. On the otherhand the Kali is $100 cheaper, smaller, and does have XLR inputs which are advantages




View attachment 321231
Thanks! Those seem to be the best subwoofers at this price range. Do you feel that the Kali cannot produce 20 Hz sounds or that it just wasn't measured for whatever reason? How are important is 20 Hz to a subwoofer?
 

617

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Thanks! Those seem to be the best subwoofers at this price range. Do you feel that the Kali cannot produce 20 Hz sounds or that it just wasn't measured for whatever reason? How are important is 20 Hz to a subwoofer?
20hz is a bit much for my home office. I have mine set up to go from 30-100ish. Consider the lowest note on a bass guitar is 41hz.
 

waynel

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Thanks! Those seem to be the best subwoofers at this price range. Do you feel that the Kali cannot produce 20 Hz sounds or that it just wasn't measured for whatever reason? How are important is 20 Hz to a subwoofer?


Erin measured it and it wasn’t able to produce 20Hz with low enough distortion to get a passing measurement. I think 20Hz is important for some styles of music (electronic, organ etc)

You can see Erin’s review here

 

sweetchaos

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Do you feel that the Kali cannot produce 20 Hz sounds or that it just wasn't measured for whatever reason?
CEA 2010 test will test all frequencies since it’s an automated test. So if it doesn’t show any values for 20hz, it means that the subwoofer FAILED to produce any meaningful output without significant distortion.

Plus, since we know that Erin reviewed the Kali subwoofer in the last few weeks, we can guarantee the accuracy of this data.
 

Ron Texas

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Thanks for that helpful link. That Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX is in my price range and getting great scores, a tiny bit better than the Neumann KH 120 II.

I wish someone had a simple preference score for subwoofers.
The preference score isn't everything. A little EQ goes a long way.
 
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ClearHearing

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Thanks for all the excellent advice so far. I have some more questions.

1. The Spinorama speaker measures page gives the scores of speakers with a "perfect" subwoofer and with EQ. The site also gives the EQ settings for each speaker. A pair of NEUMI BS5Ps goes for $170 on Amazon and gets a preference score of 8.7 with the sub and EQ. The max score is 9.0. In terms of me buying a system for my home office, should I mostly disregard the preference score with EQ and a sub and possibly pay ten times more for a pair of speakers with a much higher baseline preference score, meaning without EQ and a subwoofer?


2. Also on Spinorama, the only speaker (monitor) that gets the top score of 9.0 with EQ and a subwoofer, the Genelec 8030C, is similar to an analog monitor recommended by sweetchaos earlier: the Genelec 8040. Two of the latter are within my budget, at Thomann. Is the top score of 9.0 on this metric a strong point in the 8030C/8040's favor?

3. If I am going with Genelec monitors, is there some special synergy with a Genelec subwoofer? The $800 Genelec 7040 is not tested on sweetchaos's spreadsheet but the spreadsheet data suggests that higher priced Genelec models might have worse performance than the SVS or the Kali previously mentioned in the thread. The Neumann subwoofers are out of my price range.

4. Without a sub, I can use the software REW or Dirac to do room correction where the day-to-day EQ is implemented directly in software from my Mac, I believe, without a hardware device like the miniDSP Flex. With a sub, can I implement the day-to-day EQ room correction directly on the Mac where the Mac has a cable from its DAC to the subwoofer and the subwoofer has cables to each of the regular speakers? Or do I need a device like the miniDSP Flex that sends separate cables to the subwoofer and to each of the speakers?

5. Is there a competing digital hardware product to the miniDSP for room correction with a subwoofer? Or does miniDSP have a quasi-monopoly?

6. Is there a competing analog hardware solution for room correction with a subwoofer? Say I use computer software to get the right settings for an analog external crossover or an analog equalizer.
 
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waynel

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Thanks for all the excellent advice so far. I have some more questions.

1. The Spinorama speaker measures page gives the scores of speakers with a "perfect" subwoofer and with EQ. The site also gives the EQ settings for each speaker. A pair of NEUMI BS5Ps goes for $170 on Amazon and gets a preference score of 8.7 with the sub and EQ. The max score is 9.0. In terms of me buying a system for my home office, should I mostly disregard the preference score with EQ and a sub and possibly pay ten times more for a pair of speakers with a much higher baseline preference score, meaning without EQ and a subwoofer?


2. Also on Spinorama, the only speaker (monitor) that gets the top score of 9.0 with EQ and a subwoofer, the Genelec 8030C, is similar to an analog monitor recommended by sweetchaos earlier: the Genelec 8040. Two of the latter are within my budget, at Thomann. Is the top score of 9.0 on this metric a strong point in the 8030C/8040's favor?

3. If I am going with Genelec monitors, is there some special synergy with a Genelec subwoofer? The $800 Genelec 7040 is not tested on sweetchaos's spreadsheet but the spreadsheet data suggests that higher priced Genelec models might have worse performance than the SVS or the Kali previously mentioned in the thread. The Neumann subwoofers are out of my price range.

4. Without a sub, I can use the software REW or Dirac to do room correction where the day-to-day EQ is implemented directly in software from my Mac, I believe, without a hardware device like the miniDSP Flex. With a sub, can I implement the day-to-day EQ room correction directly on the Mac where the Mac has a cable from its DAC to the subwoofer and the subwoofer has cables to each of the regular speakers? Or do I need a device like the miniDSP Flex that sends separate cables to the subwoofer and to each of the speakers?

5. Is there a competing digital hardware product to the miniDSP for room correction with a subwoofer? Or does miniDSP have a quasi-monopoly?

6. Is there a competing analog hardware solution for room correction with a subwoofer? Say I use computer software to get the right settings for an analog external crossover or an analog equalizer.
From your questions it seems that you are forgetting the crossover which is different from EQ. For good sub integration you need to High pass the main speakers and low pass the subs. Low pass is not a problem as almost all subs have this capability built in. For the high pass there are several ways of implementing as highlighted in point 4 below.



1) I would go for the Genelecs or Neumanns if you have the budget. Advantages include bass response, dynamic capability and reliability, none of which are reflected in the score with EQ and a sub. Spins and preference scores are good indicators but aren't designed to capture every aspect of speaker performance. Also every Genelec will measure the same (to within limits of audibility), I think it would be harder to reproduce Erin's EQ results without measurement equipment with the Neumi. Remember Erin measured this one then gave feedback to the manufacture , then they changed the EQ, then he stuffed the ports.

2) 8030C is analog and would be a better option in the nearfield if you are using a sub. Without a sub or if you listen very loud, 8040 would be better but it's pretty big for a desktop. they are similar in overall sound other than bass extension and volume capability

3) no, no special synergy with Genelec subs especially of not using Genelec room correction. Genelec subs are nice but expensive for what you get.

4) If using a sub you need to implement a crossover and need 3 analog outs or 2 separate digital outs. For crossover you can use, a miniDSP flex, software and a 3-4 channel DAC, get a studio sub that has a built in crossover (both high pass and low pass)

5) I think MiniDSP is the best option around considering cost, quality, and features

6) you could use an analog crossover and EQ but this would be a suboptimal and clunky solution, Can't think of a good reason to do this.


Take a took at the distorion plots for the Neumi vs Genelec, The genelec has 20dB plus better distortion and will work right out of the box. The Neumi needs its ports stuffed, lots of EQ and a pretty high crossover frequency.

index.php


Neumi%20BS5P%20with%20New%20EQ%2C%20Ports%20Stuffed%20%28Harmonic%20Distortion%2096dB%20%40%201m%29.png
 
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stren

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What’s the largest size in cubic feet and highest price that you would consider for a sub?

Kind of like how long is a piece of string. Only you know what size and price you can tolerate. If we ignore bad designs, bigger subs either have higher output or go lower and usually both. Ported subs favor higher output with a fast rolloff, sealed favor a lower rolloff (and you can get a bigger driver in the same volume box).

For a small office and assuming we are talking music - you might be ok with small subs e.g KC62, 8" subs like the svs 3000 micro or jl audio d108 or 10" if you play loud. 12" might be overkill but there are plenty of cost efficient 12" options. If you're int he US one of the cost efficient routes would be SVS - either their specific sale models or sb1000/2000 pro and get multiple if you need more.

For my office I wanted something white which limited me to KC62, sb1000 pro, sb3000 micro, arendal etc.
 
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ClearHearing

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Thanks waynel for the discussion of the Neumi and the other advice. I did more investigation of the miniDSP and Dirac Live combo and the pair are more impressive than I thought.

Say I first buy two analog speakers for near field listening. For the next upgrade, would you prioritize miniDSP or a subwoofer, if I don't want to buy both at the same time for financial reasons?
 
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ClearHearing

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Hi, OP here. I have a question about the trio of a 1) standing desk, 2) standmounts and 3) miniDSP.

Say the speakers in my system for my home office are standmounted and the stands are, as normal, designed for the height of a seated person. When I stand up to work, the standmounts will now be aimed at my waist. Is minDSP powerful enough to fix this issue? In other words, can I run Dirac Live while I am standing and get good sound from standmount speakers pointed at my waist?
 

jhaider

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Hi, OP here. I have a question about the trio of a 1) standing desk, 2) standmounts and 3) miniDSP.

Say the speakers in my system for my home office are standmounted and the stands are, as normal, designed for the height of a seated person. When I stand up to work, the standmounts will now be aimed at my waist. Is minDSP powerful enough to fix this issue? In other words, can I run Dirac Live while I am standing and get good sound from standmount speakers pointed at my waist?
No. They need to be on your desk or otherwise moving with it.
 

stren

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Yeah I wouldn't spend $2500 on a system that is not going to move with the desk. There are ways to mount stand mounts to desks of course, or simply get a bigger desk such that they can fit.
 
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